The Project Gutenberg EBook of Warren Commission (9 of 26): Hearings Vol. IX (of 15), by The President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy This eBook is for the use of anyone anywhere at no cost and with almost no restrictions whatsoever. You may copy it, give it away or re-use it under the terms of the Project Gutenberg License included with this eBook or online at www.gutenberg.org Title: Warren Commission (9 of 26): Hearings Vol. IX (of 15) Author: The President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy Release Date: October 21, 2013 [EBook #44009] Language: English Character set encoding: ISO-8859-1 *** START OF THIS PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK WARREN COMMISSION - HEARINGS V9 *** Produced by Curtis Weyant, Charlene Taylor, Charlie Howard, and the Online Distributed Proofreading Team at http://www.pgdp.net. Images generously provided by www.history-matters.com. INVESTIGATION OF THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY HEARINGS Before the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy PURSUANT TO EXECUTIVE ORDER 11130, AN EXECUTIVE ORDER CREATING A COMMISSION TO ASCERTAIN, EVALUATE, AND REPORT UPON THE FACTS RELATING TO THE ASSASSINATION OF THE LATE PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY AND THE SUBSEQUENT VIOLENT DEATH OF THE MAN CHARGED WITH ASSASSINATION AND S.J. RES. 137, 88TH CONGRESS, A CONCURRENT RESOLUTION CONFERRING UPON THE COMMISSION THE POWER TO ADMINISTER oaths and affirmations, examine witnesses, receive evidence, and issue subpenas Volume IX UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE WASHINGTON, D.C. U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE, WASHINGTON: 1964 For sale in complete sets by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office Washington, D.C., 20402 PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY CHIEF JUSTICE EARL WARREN, Chairman SENATOR RICHARD B. RUSSELL SENATOR JOHN SHERMAN COOPER REPRESENTATIVE HALE BOGGS REPRESENTATIVE GERALD R. FORD MR. ALLEN W. DULLES MR. JOHN J. MCCLOY J. LEE RANKIN, General Counsel Assistant Counsel FRANCIS W. H. ADAMS JOSEPH A. BALL DAVID W. BELIN WILLIAM T. COLEMAN, Jr. MELVIN ARON EISENBERG BURT W. GRIFFIN LEON D. HUBERT, Jr. ALBERT E. JENNER, Jr. WESLEY J. LIEBELER NORMAN REDLICH W. DAVID SLAWSON ARLEN SPECTER SAMUEL A. STERN HOWARD P. WILLENSA Staff Members PHILLIP BARSON EDWARD A. CONROY JOHN HART ELY ALFRED GOLDBERG MURRAY J. LAULICHT ARTHUR MARMOR RICHARD M. MOSK JOHN J. O'BRIEN STUART POLLAK ALFREDDA SCOBEY CHARLES N. SHAFFER, Jr. Biographical information on the Commissioners and the staff can be found in the Commission's Report. A Mr. Willens also acted as liaison between the Commission and the Department of Justice. iii Preface The testimony of the following witnesses is contained in volume IX: Paul M. Raigorodsky, Natalie Ray, Thomas M. Ray, Samuel B. BALLEN, LYDIA DYMITRUK, GARY E. TAYLOR, ILYA A. MAMANTOV, DOROTHY GRAVITIS, PAUL RODERICK GREGORY, HELEN LESLIE, GEORGE S. D MOHRENSCHILDT, JEANNE DE MOHRENSCHILDT AND RUTH HYDE PAINE, ALL OF WHOM BECAME ACQUAINTED WITH LEE HARVEY OSWALD AND/OR HIS WIFE AFTER THEIR RETURN TO TEXAS IN 1962; JOHN JOE HOWLETT, A SPECIAL AGENT OF THE U.S. SECRET SERVICE; MICHAEL R. PAINE, AND RAYMON Franklin Krystinik, who became acquainted with Lee Harvey Oswald and/or his wife after their return to Texas in 1962. Contents Page Preface v Testimony of— Paul M. Raigorodsky 1 Mrs. Thomas M. Ray (Natalie) 27 Thomas M. Ray 38 Samuel B. Ballen 45 Lydia Dymitruk 60 Gary E. Taylor 73 Ilya A. Mamantov 102 Dorothy Gravitis 131 Paul Roderick Gregory 141 Helen Leslie 160 George S. De Mohrenschildt 166 Jeanne De Mohrenschildt 285 Ruth Hyde Paine 331, 426 John Joe Howlett 425 Michael R. Paine 434 Raymond Franklin Krystinik 461 EXHIBITS INTRODUCED Page Commission Exhibit No. 364 93 De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No.: 1 277 2 278 3 279 4 279 5 279 6 279 7 279 8 279 9 279 10 279 11 279 12 282 13 282 14 282 15 282 16 26 v vii Paine (Michael) Exhibit No.: 1 437 2 441 Paine (Ruth) Exhibit No.: 270 408 271 408 272 411 273 411 274 411 275 424 276 424 277 426 277-A 429 277-B 430 278 432 278-A 432 461 347 469 390 Raigorodsky Exhibit No.: 9 25 10 25 10-A 25 10-B 25 11 26 11-A 26 14 26 14-A 26 Hearings Before the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy TESTIMONY OF PAUL M. RAIGORODSKY THE TESTIMONY OF PAUL M. RAIGORODSKY WAS TAKEN AT 11:15 A.M., ON MARCH 31, 1964, IN HIS OFFICE, FIRST NATIONAL BANK BUILDING, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Albert E. Jenner, Jr., assistant counsel of the President's Commission. Mr. JENNER. MR. RAIGORODSKY, DO YOU SWEAR THAT IN THE TESTIMONY YOU ARE ABOUT TO GIVE, YOU WILL TELL THE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT truth? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I do. Mr. JENNER. MISS OLIVER, THIS IS PAUL M. RAIGORODSKY, WHOSE OFFICE IS IN THE FIRST NATIONAL BANK BUILDING, DALLAS, ROOM 522, AND who resides in Dallas. Mr. RAIGORODSKY. At the Stoneleigh Hotel. Mr. JENNER. Who resides at the Stoneleigh Hotel in Dallas. MR. RAIGORODSKY, I AM ALBERT E. JENNER, JR., OF THE LEGAL STAFF OF THE WARREN COMMISSION, AND MR. ROBERT T. DAVIS, WHO IS ALSO PRESENT, IS THE ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE STATE OF TEXAS AND IS SERVING ON THE STAFF OF THE TEXAS COURT OF INQUIRY. THE COMMISSI and the attorney general's office of Texas are cooperating in their respective investigations. THE COMMISSION WAS AUTHORIZED BY SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION 137 OF THE U.S. CONGRESS AND WAS THEN CREATED BY PRESIDENT LYNDON B. Johnson by Executive Order 11130 and its members appointed by him. The Commission has adopted rules and regulations regarding the taking of depositions. The Commission to investigate all the circumstances of the assassination of President Kennedy. WE HAVE SOME INFORMATION THAT YOU ARE PARTICULARLY WELL ACQUAINTED WITH THE OVERALL SO-CALLED RUSSIAN EMIGRE COMMUNITY IN DAL AND YOU ARE AN OLD TIME DALLASITE, AND WHILE FRANKLY WE DO NOT EXPECT YOU TO HAVE ANY DIRECT INFORMATION AS TO THE ASSASSINATION, TOD WE THINK YOU DO HAVE SOME INFORMATION THAT MIGHT HELP US WITH RESPECT TO—USING THE VERNACULAR—CAST OF CHARACTERS, PEOPLE WHO 1 TOUCHED THE LIVES OF LEE HARVEY OSWALD AND MARINA OSWALD, AS THE CASE MIGHT BE, AND AS I UNDERSTAND IT YOU APPEAR VOLUNTARILY TO assist us? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, sure. Mr. JENNER. Helping out in any fashion your information may assist us in that regard? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Sure. MR. JENNER. I THINK IT WILL BE WELL IF YOU, IN YOUR OWN WORDS, GAVE US YOUR GENERAL BACKGROUND, JUST GIVE US YOUR GENERAL background—when you came to Texas and in general what your business experience has been. Mr. RAIGORODSKY. My background? Mr. JENNER. Yes. Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, commencing—I don't know where to start, please? Mr. JENNER. Well, where were you born? MR. RAIGORODSKY. I WAS BORN IN RUSSIA, I LIVED IN RUSSIA UNTIL I WAS, OH, LET'S SEE, I ESCAPED FROM RUSSIA IN 1919, WENT TO Czechoslovakia to the university there. Mr. JENNER. You did what, sir? MR. RAIGORODSKY. I WENT TO THE UNIVERSITY THERE AND I AM ESCAPING FROM RUSSIA—I FOUGHT AGAINST THE BOLSHEVIKS IN TWO DIFFERENT armies and then came to the United States with the help of the American Red Cross and the YMCA. Mr. JENNER. When was that? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. In December—the 28th, 1920. Mr. JENNER. 1940? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. 1920. Mr. JENNER. How old are you, by the way? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Sixty-five—exactly. May I have this not on the record? Mr. JENNER. All right. (Discussion between Counsel Jenner and the witness off the record at this point.) Mr. JENNER. All right, go ahead. Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, I came to this country. Mr. JENNER. In 1920? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. YES; AND THEY TOLD ME THAT FOR THE MONEY THAT THEY ADVANCED FOR ME TO TRAVEL, THAT WE ONLY HAVE TO SERVE IN THE UNITED STATES FOR SOME CAPACITY, SO WHEN I CAME IN, I ENLISTED IN THE AIR FORCE AND WAS SENT TO CAMP TRAVIS, TEXAS, AND THEN IN 1922 I RECEIVED AN HONORABLE DISCHARGE, AND BECAUSE IT WAS I ENLISTED IN TIME OF WAR, I BECAME FULL-FLEDGED CITIZEN IN 4 MONTHS AFTER I ARRIVED TO THIS COUNTRY. WE STILL WERE AT WAR WITH GERMANY, THE PEACE HADN'T BEEN SIGNED. AND THEN I WENT TO THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS IN 1922 AN graduated in 1924. Mr. JENNER. What degree? MR. RAIGORODSKY. CIVIL ENGINEERING. THAT'S ALL THEY WERE GIVING, EVEN THOUGH MY SPECIALTY IS PETROLEUM ENGINEERING, BUT I TOOK courses in different subjects. By the way, first, I speak with accent and second, I speak with colds, and you can stop me any time and I will be glad to repeat. AND, THAT WAS IN 1924—THEN I WENT TO WORK IN LOS ANGELES, CALIF. I SIMULTANEOUSLY MARRIED AND THAT WAS IN 1924. I MARRIED ETHEL Margaret McCaleb, whose father was with Federal Reserve Bank—a Governor or whatever you call it. Mr. JENNER. Federal Reserve Bank? MR. RAIGORODSKY. IT WAS HERE IN DALLAS UNDER WILSON IN 1918—HE WAS APPOINTED. AT THAT TIME HE WAS A BANKER AND WAS ORGANIZING BANKS. THEN, I STAYED IN CALIFORNIA FOR SOME—FROM 1924 UNTIL MORE OR LESS—UNTIL 1928. I WORKED AS AN ENGINEER WITH E. Forrest Gilmore Co. Mr. JENNER. Is that a Dallas concern? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. NO; THAT WAS A CALIFORNIA CONCERN, SPECIALIZING IN THE BUILDING OF GASOLINE PLANTS AND REFINERIES. THEN, I WORKED FOR NEWTON PROCESS MANUFACTURING CO. AND FOR SIGNAL OIL AND GAS CO.—JUST, THAT IS, PROGRESSIVE—YOU SEE, IT WAS GOING FROM ONE TO ANOTHER, GETTING HIGHER PAY AND THINGS LIKE THAT, AND THEN IN 1928 THE NEWTON PROCESS MANUFACTURING CO. WAS SOLD OUT AND THREE OF US WAS AT THAT TIME CHIEF PROCESS ENGINEER, AND THE OTHER MAN WAS CHIEF CONSTRUCTION ENGINEER, AND THE THIRD ONE WAS CHIEF OPERATIONAL ENGINEER—WE ORGANIZED A COMPANY CALLED ENGINEERING RESEARCH AND EQUIPMENT CO., AND WE STARTED TO BUILD GASOLINE PLANTS AND refineries. Then, I was sent to Dallas because our business was good—I was sent to Dallas. Mr. JENNER. Your business was growing? 2 MR. RAIGORODSKY. OH, YES; GROWING. I WAS SENT TO DALLAS AND I ORGANIZED AN OFFICE HERE. THEN, WE MOVED THE COMPANY FROM DALLAS AND MADE THE LOS ANGELES OFFICE A BRANCH OFFICE. THEN, I WENT TO TULSA AND OPENED AN OFFICE OF OUR COMPANY THERE, AND THAT WAY WE WERE BUILDING LOTS OF PLANTS IN LOUISIANA, IN TEXAS, IN OKLAHOMA. THEN, I SOLD OUT MY THIRD IN 1929. IT WAS A GOOD TIME TO SELL OUT and I organized the Petroleum Engineering Co., which company I have had ever since, until just now—it is inoperative. THEN, I CONTINUED TO—I OPENED AN OFFICE IN HOUSTON AND CONTINUED TO BUILD GASOLINE PLANTS AND REFINERIES UNDER THE NAME OF PETROLEUM ENGINEERING CO. AND BUILT ABOUT 250 OF THEM ALL OVER THE WORLD AND IN THE UNITED STATES—LOTS OF THEM—EVEN IN RUSS THOUGH I NEVER WENT THERE, WE HAD A PROTOCOL (I BELIEVE NO. 4), UNDER WHICH WE WERE SUPPOSED TO HAVE GIVEN THEM SOME REFINERIES AND GASOLINE PLANTS—YOU KNOW THE "CHICKENS AND THE EGGS" SITUATION. THE FACT IS I HAD AN ORDER FROM THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT AND ONE OF them was sunk. Maybe this should be off the record? (Discussion between Counsel Jenner and the witness off the record at this point.) Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Let's see, now, Pearl Harbor was in 1939? Mr. JENNER. 1941; December of 1941. Mr. RAIGORODSKY. 1941? Mr. DAVIS. 1941. Mr. JENNER. December 8th. Mr. DAVIS. The war started in 1939. Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes. Mr. JENNER. The Germans invaded Poland in September 1939. Mr. RAIGORODSKY. ALREADY THEN WE HAD THE WAR PRODUCTION BOARD, THOUGH TO BEGIN WITH IT WAS THE DEFENSE BOARD, AND THEN WAR Production Board, but I was asked to come to Washington. Now, let's see, which year was it? Probably 1941—before the war. Mr. JENNER. Before the war with Japan, you mean? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Before Pearl Harbor. Mr. JENNER. All right. Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I WAS ASKED TO COME TO WASHINGTON TO ORGANIZE THE DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL GAS AND NATURAL GASOLINE INDUSTRIES FOR THE UNITED STATES, WHICH I DID, AND THEN I HAD TO OPEN—I WORKED UNDER DEGOLYER. I ORGANIZED THE DEPARTMENT FROM NOTHING UNTIL HAD FIVE OFFICES. WE HAD DISTRICTS IN CALIFORNIA AND TULSA AND CHICAGO, HOUSTON AND NEW YORK, AND THEN IN 1943 I RESIGNED, AND IN THE meantime I got ulcer, you know, working like you do, until 11:30 nights, so in 1943 I resigned and came back to my business. Mr. JENNER. Here in Dallas? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. NO, IN HOUSTON. AT THAT TIME I OFFICED IN HOUSTON. BY THE WAY, WHILE I WAS BUILDING PLANTS FOR OTHERS, I ALSO BUILT PLANTS FOR MYSELF FOR THE PRODUCTION OF MOTOR FUEL, L.P.G. AND OTHER PIPELINE PRODUCTS, AND THE FIRST PLANT WAS BUILT IN 1936—THE G ROSE GASOLINE CO. THE SECOND ONE WAS BUILT IN 1943—THE CLAIBORNE GASOLINE CO. THEN, I LIVED IN HOUSTON UNTIL ABOUT 1949 OR 1950 AND I GOT SICK WITH MY BACK. YOU KNOW, I HAVE A VERY BAD BACK. THEY WANTED TO OPERATE ON ME THERE BUT JAKE HAMON HERE, A FRIEND OF mine, told me that he wouldn't speak to me unless I come to Dallas, so believe or not, they brought me to Dallas. THAT'S VERY INTERESTING WHAT I AM GOING TO TELL YOU—IN AN AMBULANCE FROM HOUSTON—AND THERE WAS A DR. PAUL WILLIAMS—HE TO me that without operation he would put me on my feet. I never went back to Houston, even to close my apartment or to close my office, BUT I MOVED MY APARTMENT AND MY OFFICES HERE TO DALLAS AND I OFFERED PEOPLE THAT WORKED WITH ME, THAT I WOULD PAY THEM FOR WHATEVER loss they had, because in selling their houses and moving here, lock, stock and barrel, I never went back. I was so mad, and I have lived here ever since with one exception. I believe it was in 1952—in 1952 I was asked by—you know General Anderson, by any chance? Mr. JENNER. No. MR. RAIGORODSKY. HE WAS WHAT WE CALL—THERE WAS AN ORGANIZATION IN EUROPE CALLED SRE, SPECIAL REPRESENTATIVES TO EUROPE. There was an Ambassador Draper at the head of it, and Ambassador Anderson is a Deputy, and in 1952 Ambassador Anderson asked ME TO COME TO EUROPE AND HELP THEM WITH PRODUCTION, SO I WENT TO EUROPE TO IMPROVE THE PRODUCTION OF TANKS, PLANES, AMMUNITION, ET cetera for all the NATO countries. I WAS DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF PRODUCTION. NOW, I THINK I WAS GETTING ALONG ALL RIGHT AND AGAIN I GOT SICK IN MY NECK THIS TIME, SO THE FLEW ME—THEY FLEW ME TO JOHNS HOPKINS AND FOUND OUT THAT I HAD BAD NECK. BY THE WAY, I'M NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE THIS, BUT HERE IS MY card. (Handed instrument to Counsel Jenner.) I LEFT IN SUCH A HURRY, THEY FLEW ME UNDER SUCH PAIN, THAT I DIDN'T RETURN ANYTHING, AND I HAD TO START TO DESTROY MOST OF THE THINGS I DIDN'T DESTROY THIS ONE. I STAYED THERE FOR SEVERAL MONTHS AND THEN I CAME BACK HERE AND I HAVE BEEN HERE EVER SINCE, LIVING HERE, GOING TO DIFFERENT PLACES, GOING TO EUROPE AND I MADE TRIPS TO EUROPE, TAHITI, JAMAICA, AND FINALLY BOUGHT A PLANTATION IN JAMAICA TOGETHER WITH SOME OTHER FRIENDS HERE AND WE ORGANIZED A CLUB CALLED TRYALL, T-R-Y-A-L-L [SPELLING] GOLF CLUB, AND I GO THERE EVERY YEAR NOW. THAT ABOUT ALL. MY WIFE DIVORCED ME IN 1943 FOR THE PRIMARY REASON THAT I WOULDN'T RETIRE. I HAVE TWO DAUGHTERS, ONE IS MRS. HARRY BRIDGE That has nothing to do with the—— Mr. JENNER. With the Longshoremen? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That has nothing to do with the Longshoremen. And off the record now. 3 4 (Discussion between Counsel Jenner and the witness off the record.) Mr. RAIGORODSKY. IN FACT, I JUST CAME FROM THE WEDDING. THAT'S THE SECOND MARRIAGE. THEN, I HAVE ANOTHER DAUGHTER—MAYBE YOU know my son-in-law, Howard Norris? Mr. DAVIS. Where is he—in Washington? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Howard Lee Norris, he graduated, I think, in 1951 or 1952. Mr. DAVIS. No, I don't think so. What business is he in? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Lawyer of the University of Texas. Mr. DAVIS. No, I don't think so. Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I am very proud of that. That's my child. (At this point the witness exhibited wedding pictures to Counsel Jenner.) Mr. JENNER. This is your daughter on the left? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes. And, I will answer anything else you want to now. Mr. JENNER. ALL RIGHT. WHILE LIVING IN THE DALLAS AREA, AND I LISTENED TO YOUR SPLENDID CAREER, I ASSUME THAT—AND IF THIS ASSUMPTION WRONG, PLEASE CORRECT ME—THAT THE PEOPLE OF RUSSIAN DESCENT WHO CAME INTO THIS AREA OF TEXAS WOULD TEND TO SEEK YOUR ADVICE OR ASSISTANCE, THAT YOU IN TURN VOLUNTARILY, ON YOUR OWN PART, HAD AN INTEREST IN THOSE PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY AND THAT IN ANY EVENT BECAME ACQUAINTED WITH A GOOD MANY PEOPLE FROM EUROPE WHO SETTLED IN THIS GENERAL AREA—IN THE DALLAS METROPOLITAN AREA AND EVEN U into Houston? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes—Louise, will you get me my church file? (Addressing his secretary, Mrs. Louise Meek.) Mr. JENNER. WILL YOU BE GOOD ENOUGH TO TELL ME FIRST, AND MR. DAVIS, IN GENERAL OF THE USUAL—IF THERE IS A USUAL PATTERN OF SOMEONE COMING IN HERE? HOW THEY BECOME ACQUAINTED? WHAT IS THE COMMUNITY OF PEOPLE OF RUSSIAN DESCENT, AND I DO WANT TO TELL YOU IN advance that the thought I have in mind in this connection is trying to follow the Oswalds. Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right. MR. JENNER. WHAT WOULD BE THE COMMON MANNER AND FASHION IN WHICH THE OSWALDS WOULD BECOME ACQUAINTED, OR OTHERS WOULD BECOME ACQUAINTED WITH THEM, AND BEFORE YOU GET TO THAT, THAT'S KIND OF A SPECIFIC, I WANT YOU TO GIVE ME FROM YOUR FUND OF KNOWLEDGE AND YOUR INTERESTS—TELL ME WHAT YOUR INTERESTS HAVE BEEN, WHAT THE EXPECTED PATTERN WOULD BE OF PEOPLE COMING—LIKE MARINA OSWALD for example, into this community? Let's not make it Marina Oswald—I don't want to get into a specific, but let's take a hypothetical couple? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. All right. I can just summarize what happened in the many years that I have been both in Houston and in Dallas. THERE ARE METHODS OF, I WOULD SAY, OF IMMIGRATION INTO THE COMMUNITIES IN DALLAS OF THE RUSSIANS I'M TALKING ABOUT. ONE IS VIA FRIENDSHIP, ACQUAINTANCESHIP SOMEWHERE IN EUROPE OR IN CHINA OR SOMEWHERE ELSE, BUT WITH DIFFERENT RUSSIANS AND THE ORDER BY THE Tolstoy Foundation—you are acquainted with the Tolstoy Fund? Mr. JENNER. I THINK FOR THE PURPOSES OF THE RECORD, SINCE THE READER MAY NOT BE ACQUAINTED WITH IT, THAT YOU MIGHT HELP A LITTLE BIT the Tolstoy Foundation. Mr. RAIGORODSKY. WELL, MISS ALEXANDRA TOLSTOY IS A DAUGHTER OF OUR GREAT NOVELIST, LEO TOLSTOY, AND I GUESS YOU KNOW HIM, AND SHE CAME TO THIS COUNTRY AND SHE ORGANIZED A TOLSTOY FOUNDATION, WHICH TAKES CARE OF RUSSIAN REFUGEES THROUGHOUT THE WORLD WHEREVER THEY MAY BE. THEY PROCESS THEM, WHICH MEANS THAT THEY KNOW ALL ABOUT THEM BEFORE THEY COME INTO HERE THROUGH THEIR OWN ORGANIZATION OR YOUR DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS. LIKE, YOU HAVE A CHURCH IN THE UNITED STATES—YOU HAVE A CHURCH ORGANIZATION OR ALL KINDS OF BENEVOLE ORGANIZATIONS THAT WANT TO HELP REFUGEES AND THEY DON'T KNOW WHO TO HELP SO THEY GO TO THE TOLSTOY FOUNDATION AND THEREFORE THE TOLSTOY FOUNDATION IS ABLE TO PLACE MANY, MANY RUSSIANS IN THIS COUNTRY, NOT ONLY IN THIS COUNTRY BUT—I AM ON THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS THE TOLSTOY FOUNDATION—BUT ALSO IN EUROPEAN COUNTRIES. SOMETIMES THEY CANNOT BRING THEM TO THE UNITED STATES, NOT ENOUGH MONE PERHAPS. NOW, ANYBODY WHO COMES TO THE TOLSTOY FOUNDATION, YOU KNOW RIGHT OFF OF THE BAT THEY HAVE BEEN CHECKED, RECHECKED AND double checked. There is no question about them. I mean, that's the No. 1 stamp. Mr. JENNER. That's the No. 1 stamp of an approval or of their genuineness? MR. RAIGORODSKY. OF APPROVAL—IN FACT, THE U.S. GOVERNMENT RECOGNIZED THAT AND HAS BEEN UP UNTIL ABOUT A YEAR OR TWO AGO giving the Tolstoy Foundation as much as $400,000 a year subsidy for this kind of work. Now, of the other Russians that come here, as I said, they come in through acquaintanceship—most of them. Mr. JENNER. They come because of prior acquaintanceship? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. With some. Mr. JENNER. With some people who are here? MR. RAIGORODSKY. THAT'S RIGHT—CORRESPONDENCE YOU SEE. LIKE WE HAVE IN HOUSTON—WE HAD A BUNCH OF PEOPLE COMING FROM SERBIA, YOU KNOW, YUGOSLAVIA—THE FEW WE HAVE THAT LEFT RUSSIA AND WENT TO YUGOSLAVIA AND THEN THEY HAD TO ESCAPE YUGOSLAVIA, AND THERE WAS QUITE A RUSSIAN COLONY THERE AND SOME OF THEM DRIFTED TO THE UNITED STATES AND SETTLED IN HOUSTON, AND OF COURSE THEY ST correspondence and working and lots of other people came to Houston and to Dallas through that channel. 5 Mr. JENNER. They followed? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. THEN, THERE IS A SMALL BUNCH OF RUSSIANS THAT APPEAR FROM NOWHERE. I MEAN, THEY DON'T COME WITH ANY APPROVAL FROM TOLSTOY FOUNDATION OR DO THEY COME THROUGH THE ACQUAINTANCESHIP OF PEOPLE HERE. THEY JUST DRIFT AND THERE'S NO PLACE, BELIEVE ME in the world where you cannot find one Russian. Now, I would like this off the record. Mr. JENNER. All right. Off the record. (Discussion between Counsel Jenner and the witness off the record at this point.) Mr. JENNER. All right. Now, let's have this on the record. MR. RAIGORODSKY. NOW, BECAUSE OF MY—I ALWAYS BELIEVE THAT EVEN THOUGH I AM, MYSELF, NOT MUCH OF A CHURCHGOING MAN, BUT I BELIEVE THAT THE ONLY WAY TO UNITE RUSSIANS, AND I THINK THEY SHOULD BE UNITED IN THIS COUNTRY, WAS THROUGH A CHURCH, SO, FOR MANY YEA we had a church in Texas—at Galveston—but that church—we didn't like because the Serbian priest, they were coming over there. We couldn't figure it out, whether they were one side of the fence or the other. Mr. JENNER. One side of what fence or the other? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, the only fence I know of is between the communism and the anticommunism. Mr. JENNER. All right. You are on the anticommunistic side of the fence? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh; of course. Mr. JENNER. I want that to appear on record is why I asked. MR. RAIGORODSKY. OH, YES; I HAVE BEEN ALL MY LIFE. SO, LET'S SEE, MAYBE IN 1949 OR THEREABOUTS—I HAVE DONATED QUITE A BIT OF MONEY TO THE RUSSIAN COLONY IN HOUSTON THERE WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT IF THEY WOULD SECURE AT LEAST 50 PERCENT OF ADDITIONAL MO from the rest of the people of the Russian colony, that they buy or build a church there, which they did. Mr. JENNER. What religion is that—the name of the church? MR. RAIGORODSKY. RUSSIAN—GREEK ORTHODOX. YOU MAY CALL IT ALSO EASTERN GREEK ORTHODOX. IT'S THE SAME RELIGION AS GREEK CATHOLICS HAVE WITH TWO MAIN DIFFERENCES—ONE IS THE LANGUAGE IN WHICH THE SERVICE IS PERFORMED IS THE OLD SLAVIC LANGUAGES AGAINST Greek, and then, of course, we have our own Patriarch at the head of our own church. Mr. JENNER. In Houston? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, no, no; we have in New York—it's Metropolitan Anastasia, who is the head of our church of this country. Mr. JENNER. Who was the pastor over in Houston? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, I will come to that. Mr. JENNER. All right. MR. RAIGORODSKY. THEN, WHEN WE GOT TO—WHEN I CAME TO DALLAS WE HAD FATHER ROYSTER HERE OF THE CHURCH, I MEAN, HE IS A CONVERT. HE IS AN AMERICAN CONVERT TO THE GREEK ORTHODOX RELIGION AND HE APPROACHED ME BECAUSE HE WANTED TO BUILD THE CHURCH OF St. Seraphim in Dallas. Mr. JENNER. You must be acquainted with Father Royster? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. He knows me very well, but anyhow, here it is about the church here—— Mr. JENNER. The full name is Dimitri Robert Royster—go right ahead. Mr. RAIGORODSKY. (HANDED INSTRUMENT TO COUNSEL JENNER.) THAT GIVES US THE HISTORY OF THE SITUATION HERE, BUT THEN WE HAD A SPLIT HERE BETWEEN THE RUSSIANS WHO CAME TO THIS COUNTRY ESCAPING THE COMMUNISTS OR BOLSHEVIKS, AT THAT TIME WE CALLED THEM—THEY CALLED themselves the Guard. Mr. JENNER. The original church that you helped organize, that is referred to as the Old Guard? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. THAT'S RIGHT, AND ST. SERAPHIM YOU SEE, BECAUSE WE BOTH OCCUPY THE SAME PREMISES AND I WAS THE HEAD OF BOTH of them. Mr. JENNER. You were the head of both churches? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, yes; I belong to both churches. In fact I belong to three churches. Mr. JENNER. They are different parishes in the same church, aren't they? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. NO, THEY ARE ENTIRELY DIFFERENT CHURCHES. I WOULD LIKE TO EXPLAIN TO YOU—YOU SEE, IN THIS COUNTRY—I'M QUITE SURE you know—I don't know whether you would be interested in what I am going to tell you about? Mr. JENNER. I AM PRIMARILY INTERESTED IN THIS—FROM THE DEPOSITIONS I HAVE TAKEN AND INQUIRIES I HAVE MADE, MY IMPRESSION IS THAT one of the immediate sources of obtaining acquaintanceship in the community by refugees who come here is through the church. Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's correct. Mr. JENNER. St. Seraphim's is one parish and then there is another one—George Bouhe's folks. Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right. Mr. JENNER. Or the church he is most active in, and I forget the name of that one—what is that? 6 Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's St. Nicholas. Mr. JENNER. That's the St. Nicholas Church? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I'm head of that one. Mr. JENNER. You are head of that one? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes. Mr. JENNER. And you say it is a third one? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. NO, IT IS NOT A THIRD ONE HERE—JUST THE TWO. NOW YOU SEE, THIS IS THE THING I HAVE TO TELL YOU THEN, BECAUSE THAT is, again, leads to the same Oswald situation, I believe. Mr. JENNER. All right. Mr. RAIGORODSKY. YOU SEE, THE FATHER ROYSTER CHURCH IS NOT JUST FOR RUSSIANS. IT IS FOR ALL THE GREEK ORTHODOX, WHETHER THEY ARE SERBIANS, SICILIANS, OR LEBANESE—AND THERE ARE LOTS OF PEOPLE THAT CAME FOR THE SAME RELIGION EVEN THOUGH THEIR SERVICES IN THEIR OWN churches is in their own language, but here they are all in the English language because of Father Royster's. Mr. JENNER. Father Royster preaches the sermons in English? MR. RAIGORODSKY. OH, YES; THERE IS NO QUESTION HE IS AN AMERICAN, HE WAS A TEACHER AT S.M.U. UNTIL HE RESIGNED. NOW, I AM A MEMBER OF THIS CHURCH BECAUSE IT IS A GREEK ORTHODOX AND I WANT TO HELP THEM—THAT MEANS I PAY MY DUES AND I HELP THEM WITH EVERYTHING THEY NEED, IN FACT, WE HAVE A MONASTERY THERE—THAT'S THE ONE WHICH FATHER ROYSTER ORGANIZED OF WHICH ALSO I HELPED THEM Now, the difference between Father Royster's Church and Bouhe's Church, as you know it—— Mr. JENNER. St. Nicholas? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. ST. NICHOLAS—SO THAT FATHER ROYSTER BELONGS TO METROPOLITAN LEONTY—METROPOLITAN LEONTY IS IN NEW YORK AND IF YOU MAY SAY SO, HE IS A COMPETITOR OF METROPOLITAN ANASTASIA. METROPOLITAN LEONTY IS THE HEAD OF THE AMERICAN RUSSIAN CHURCH YOU SEE, BEFORE THE REVOLUTION, WE HAD A CHURCH IN AMERICA, AND HE WAS THE HEAD OF IT. METROPOLITAN ANASTASIA IS THE HEAD OF THE RUSSIANS OUTSIDE OF RUSSIA, BECAUSE HE IS—WHETHER HE ESCAPED RUSSIA LIKE ALL OF US—THEREFORE, ALL OF US WHO ESCAPED WITH HIM OR about the same time belonged to that church. Mr. JENNER. I see. Mr. RAIGORODSKY. IT IS VERY SIMPLE, AND AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED IT IS THE BETTER METHOD, BECAUSE WE KNOW EACH OTHER, WE KNOW ABOUT EACH OTHER, WE KNOW WHICH FOUGHT, WHICH ONE FOUGHT AGAINST THE BOLSHEVIKS—ALL OF THE SO-CALLED ST. NICHOLAS CHURCH IS AN O anti-Communist group—period. NOW, THE ST. SERAPHIM CHURCH CAN BE INFILTRATED BY ANYBODY BECAUSE NOBODY CHECKS, YOU SEE, THE ONLY THING AND THERE IS NO TIE-IN THERE EXCEPT FOR THE CHURCH—NOT THAT THERE IS A TIE-IN BECAUSE WE FOUGHT AGAINST COMMUNISM AND BECAUSE OF THE CHURCH. THE SAME THING IN HOUSTON, THE TIE-IN WAS NOT ONLY BECAUSE OF THE CHURCH BUT BECAUSE WE FOUGHT AGAINST COMMUNISM AND EVEN THOUGH WE CAME THROUGH different grounds, some through New York, some through California, but we got there and so we have a church over there. NOW, I PERSONALLY BELIEVE THAT A CHURCH IS A CHURCH—AS LONG AS IT IS MY RELIGION. I WILL GO TO ONE OR I WILL GO TO ANOTHER ONE. DOESN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE TO ME—I TRIED TO GET THEM TOGETHER AND I DIDN'T SUCCEED IN THAT TOWN. IN HOUSTON—I THINK THAT IS BECAUSE is only one church—it is more successful. NOW, I DON'T KNOW IT FOR A FACT, BUT EXCEPT AS I WAS TOLD BY FATHER ROYSTER THAT THE OSWALDS CAME THROUGH FORT WORTH ORIGINAL Now, this is hearsay—that I believe they got acquainted with the people by the name of Clark. Mr. JENNER. Max Clark? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I MEAN, THAT'S ALL HEARSAY—I DO NOT KNOW IT FOR A FACT. WHILE SHE IS A RUSSIAN, IN FACT SHE IS A FIRST COUSIN OF A VERY CLOSE FRIEND OF MINE, PRINCE SHERBATOFF, WHO LIVES IN NEW YORK AND LIVES IN JAMAICA. THAT'S WHERE I SEE HIM OCCASIONALLY. NOW, IT is my understanding that the Clarks told some of their friends—again, this is hearsay, that "Here is a Russian married to an American and THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE MILK FOR THE BABIES." NOW, THAT IS MY UNDERSTANDING. AND SO, THE RUSSIANS, I MEAN OF BOTH CHURCHES, BECAUSE THERE ARE NOT MANY RUSSIANS IN OUR CHURCH AS AGAINST ANOTHER, STARTED TO PROVIDE THEM GROCERIES, BUY MILK FOR THE BABY, IN FACT I WAS TOLD THA they had her fix her teeth—her teeth were absolutely, oh, it is unspeakable. Mr. JENNER. THIS WOULD, FROM YOUR OBSERVATION, BE A PERFECTLY NORMAL SORT OF THING THAT WOULD OCCUR IN THIS COMMUNITY THROUGH TH CHURCHES THAT YOU HAVE MENTIONED. THEY ARE SMALL CHURCHES, THE PEOPLE ARE WELL ACQUAINTED WITH ALL THE PARISHIONERS, THAT IS, ACQUAINT with each other. They seek to help? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Absolutely. Mr. JENNER. They seek to help those who come from Europe as refugees or otherwise? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right. Mr. JENNER. Those of Russian or Serbian or Central European derivation? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right—that's correct. Mr. JENNER. About when was the first you heard of hearsay or otherwise of—— Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That that happened that way? MR. JENNER. NO, OF THE OSWALDS AT ALL? WHEN DID IT FIRST COME TO YOUR ATTENTION THAT THE OSWALDS WERE HERE IN THE DALLAS-FO 7 Worth area? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. The assassination. I am absolutely ignorant of their names—I never saw them before the assassination. Mr. JENNER. I appreciate that—had you heard of the Oswald name? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No, never had. Mr. JENNER. Prior to November 22, 1963? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. NO, IN FACT, I HAVE HEARD A RUSSIAN DISCUSSING THOSE THINGS WHICH I TELL YOU ARE HEARSAY WITH ME, ON A MEETING— we have yearly meetings. Mr. JENNER. Did you say yearly? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Once a year—we meet to elect officers. We meet once a year to elect the officers. Mr. JENNER. Is this true of both St. Nicholas and St. Seraphim? MR. RAIGORODSKY. IT'S ST. NICHOLAS. IN ST. SERAPHIM I DO NOT ATTEND TO ANY KIND OF ADMINISTRATIVE DUTIES. I AM JUST A PARISHIONER, now, because, FIRST OF ALL, I BELIEVE THAT SOONER OR LATER ALL OF US WILL DIE IN THE OTHER CHURCH AND THERE WILL BE NOTHING LEFT BUT ST. SER FIRST, BECAUSE ST. SERAPHIM CHURCH IS GROWING. WELL, IF THERE ARE ONE OR TWO OF US LEFT—IT WOULD BE FINE. YOU SEE, HOW WE ARE AT ST NICHOLAS—WE ARE SUPPOSED TO MEET ONCE A MONTH AND WE ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE THE PRIEST FROM HOUSTON COME HERE AND PERFORM services, but now Houston doesn't have the priest and so we don't have the priest. So, our priest from Galveston comes up. Mr. JENNER. Comes up here? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. And I personally don't like him—so I wouldn't go to the services in my own church on his account. Mr. JENNER. Yes. Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Now, I went to New York and I discussed with our people from our Synod, you know. Mr. JENNER. The Synod, S-y-n-o-d (spelling)? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. AND THEY ARE SENDING US A PRIEST, A NEW PRIEST, WHO WILL BE STATIONED IN HOUSTON AND THEN THEY COME HERE ONCE a month, but the Houston community is down to about 15 families and this is not any better. We have about 10 families, I would say. Mr. JENNER. When you say different—you mean here in Dallas? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. In Dallas—yes. Mr. JENNER. What is the name of the priest who comes up from Galveston? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Let me see—maybe I have it here. (Examining file.) MAYBE HE'S NOT FROM GALVESTON—HE COMES FROM HOUSTON, BUT HE'S THE ONE THAT WAS, YOU KNOW,—CAN THIS BE OFF THE RECORD—I just throw those notices in the waste basket because I don't want to hear from him. (Discussion between Counsel Jenner and the Witness off the record at this point.) Mr. JENNER. MISS OLIVER, MR. RAIGORODSKY HAS HANDED ME A ONE-SHEET DOCUMENT, SINGLE SPACED, TYPED, ENTITLED "SOME HISTORICAL INFORMATION CONCERNING ST. SERAPHIM EASTERN ORTHODOX CHURCH," WHICH I HAVE PERUSED, AND IN VIEW OF THE TESTIMONY OF PREVIOUS WITNESSES REGARDING THE ORGANIZATION OF ST. SERAPHIM'S CHURCH AND THEIR ATTENDANCE AT ITS SERVICES, AND OUR PARISHIONERS WHO HAVE SOME CONTACT THROUGH THE CHURCH, OR AT LEAST BECAUSE OF THEIR ACQUAINTANCE WITH OTHER PARISHIONERS, AND IN TURN WITH THE OSWALDS, IT WOUL helpful to have this statement in the record, and will you please copy it. Mr. RAIGORODSKY. You can have that—I have a photostat of it. Mr. JENNER. Well, I want to copy it in the record. Mr. RAIGORODSKY. All right. "Some Historical Information Concerning St. Seraphim Eastern Orthodox Church." IN APRIL OF 1954, A SMALL GROUP OF CONVERTS TO THE ORTHODOX FAITH (REV. ILYA RUDOLPH RANGEL, RECTOR OF THE ALREADY EXISTI MEXICAN ORTHODOX CHURCH UNDER THE JURISDICTION OF BISHOP BOGDAN, DIMITRI ROBERT ROYSTER, A SUBDEACON IN BISHOP BOGDAN'S JURISDICTION, AND MISS DIMITRA ROYSTER) SOUGHT PERMISSION OF THEIR BISHOP TO ORGANIZE AN ENGLISH-LANGUAGE ORTHODOX MISSION IN THE CITY O DALLAS. IT MAY BE STATED PARENTHETICALLY THAT THE THREE ABOVE-MENTIONED PERSONS WERE WORKING, AT THE TIME OF THE ORGANIZATION OF SERAPHIM'S, IN CLOSE COOPERATION WITH ST. NICHOLAS RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH, OF WHICH FATHER ALEXANDER CHERNAY OF HOUSTON WAS pastor and which held services periodically in the chapel of the Sunday School building at St. Matthew's Episcopal Cathedral. FATHER RANGEL AND SUBDEACON ROYSTER SET OUT TO FIND A BUILDING THAT WOULD BE SUITABLE TO HOUSE THE ACTIVITIES OF THE PROJECT MISSION. PROPERTY WAS LOCATED AT THE CORNER OF MCKINNEY AVENUE (3734) AND BLACKBURN STREET. THE SALE PRICE OF THE PROPERTY WAS $15,000, AND SINCE THE FINANCIAL RESOURCES OF THE ORGANIZERS WERE LIMITED, FATHER RANGEL AND SUBDEACON ROYSTER WENT TO SEEK THE AID OF MR. PAUL RAIGORODSKY, A MEMBER OF ST. NICHOLAS' PARISH. MR. RAIGORODSKY AGREED TO MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR THE GROUP TO ACQUIRE A LOAN FROM THE FIRST NATIONAL BANK IN DALLAS IN ORDER TO PURCHASE THE PROPERTY (ON WHICH THERE WAS AN EIGHT-ROOM TWO-STORY HOUSE). TH property was bought in the name of St. Seraphim's Church. SERVICES IN ENGLISH BEGAN TO BE HELD IN JUNE OF 1954. FATHER RANGEL CONDUCTED OCCASIONAL SERVICES—SUNDAY VESPERS WEEKLY AND AN EARLY LITURGY ONCE A MONTH. FATHER RANGEL AND SUBDEACON ROYSTER CONSTRUCTED AN ICONOSTAS AND MADE A NUMBER OF SHRINES AND ARTICLES, AND A CHAPEL WAS ARRANGED ON THE FIRST FLOOR OF THE HOUSE. AFTER A MONTH OR 2 THE MEMBERS OF ST. NICHOLAS' PARISH WERE INVITE 8 9 to use the chapel, since one of their members had been so instrumental in the acquisition of the property. ON NOVEMBER 6, 1954, SUBDEACON ROYSTER WAS ORDAINED TO THE PRIESTHOOD BY BISHOP BOGDAN AND BECAME RECTOR OF ST. SERAPHIM'S CHURCH. SHORTLY AFTERWARDS, IT WAS AGREED TO TRANSFER THE TITLE OF THE PROPERTY AT 3734 MCKINNEY TO ST. NICHOLAS' CHURC WAS FURTHER AGREED THAT THE TWO GROUPS WOULD USE THE CHAPEL, ST. NICHOLAS' CHURCH 1 WEEKEND PER MONTH AND ST. SERAPHIM'S CHURCH the rest of the time. IN JANUARY OF 1955 AN EXTENSIVE RENOVATION PROGRAM WAS UNDERTAKEN, AND BOTH FLOORS OF THE HOUSE WERE REDECORATED, SHEET-ROCKED and painted. FATHER HILARION MADISON HAD BEEN ORDAINED BY BISHOP BOGDAN ON OCTOBER 31, 1954, AND HAD WORKED WITH FATHER RANGEL AS ASSISTANT PASTOR AT THE MEXICAN CHURCH UNTIL DECEMBER 1954, WHEN HE JOINED THE WORK AT ST. SERAPHIM'S AND BECAME ASSISTANT TO Father Royster. FOR A FEW MONTHS JOINT SERVICES WERE HELD ON THE OCCASIONS WHEN FATHER ALEXANDER CHERNAY VISITED DALLAS; THAT IS, FATHER DIMITR and Father Hilarion concelebrated with Father Alexander. IN MARCH 1955, BISHOP BOGDAN DIRECTED FATHER DIMITRI AND FATHER HILARION TO BEGIN MISSION WORK IN FORT WORTH, TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE WEEKENDS WHEN FATHER ALEXANDER WAS IN DALLAS, IN ORDER TO EXTEND THE BENEFITS OF THE MISSIONARY ACTIVITY TO A GROUP OF ORTHOD RESIDENTS OF THAT CITY. SERVICES WERE HELD IN THE CHAPEL OF ST. ANDREW'S EPISCOPAL CHURCH IN DOWNTOWN FORT WORTH UNTIL THE SUMMER 1956. IN ORDER BETTER TO PURSUE ITS MISSION AS AN ENGLISH-LANGUAGE PARISH AND TO ATTRACT ORTHODOX PEOPLE OF ALL NATIONAL BACKGROUNDS, S SERAPHIM'S CHURCH DECIDED TO ACQUIRE PROPERTY OF ITS OWN. A HOUSE WAS BOUGHT AT 4203 NEWTON AVENUE, AND A CHAPEL, MEETING ROOM, OFFICE AND KITCHEN WERE ARRANGED IN THE HOUSE AFTER CONSIDERABLE RENOVATION. THIS BUILDING SERVED THE NEEDS OF THE PARISH UNTIL THE NEW CHURCH WAS BUILT IN MARCH AND APRIL OF 1961. THE HOUSE WAS THEN CONVERTED INTO A PARISH HALL. IN 1962, AN ADJACENT LOT WITH ITS HOUSE were bought by the parish. The house is being renovated at present and will eventually be used for a rectory. IN SEPTEMBER OF 1958 THE PARISH WAS TRANSFERRED FROM THE JURISDICTION OF BISHOP BOGDAN TO THAT OF METROPOLITAN LEONTY, TH Russian Metropolia. MEMBERSHIP IN ST. SERAPHIM'S PARISH HAS GROWN FROM THE ORIGINAL 3 TO APPROXIMATELY 125 SOULS. AVERAGE ATTENDANCE AT THE SUNDAY LITURGY HAS INCREASED YEAR BY YEAR AND IS NOW ABOUT 75. A SUNDAY SCHOOL WITH TWO CLASSES IS MAINTAINED. SERVICES ARE HELD REGULARLY ON Wednesday, Saturday, and Sunday evenings, and the Liturgy is celebrated on Sundays and on holy days. MR. JENNER. MR. RAIGORODSKY, IN THAT CONNECTION, THIS DOCUMENT WHICH IS ENTITLED "SOME HISTORICAL INFORMATION CONCERNING ST. Seraphim Eastern Orthodox Church," when was that prepared? MR. RAIGORODSKY. I HAVE NO IDEA BECAUSE I HAVE—LET'S SEE—THE EARLY PART OF THIS YEAR I HAVE ASKED FATHER ROYSTER IF HE HAS ANYTHING HISTORICAL ABOUT THE ST. SERAPHIM, HOW IT STARTED AND EVERYTHING, OR CAN HE PREPARE SOMETHING, AND HE SAID "NO," HE ALREADY HA something, and I said, "All right, send me a copy of it." Mr. JENNER. Do you understand that Father Royster prepared this historical summary? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's my understanding. Mr. JENNER. Now, have you read this historical summary? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, yes; I did. Mr. JENNER. And, are you familiar with the events and course of events that are recited in that 1-page summary? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I am. Mr. JENNER. AND TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE AND INFORMATION, DOES FATHER ROYSTER, IF HE PREPARED IT OR WHOMEVER PREPARED IT, is the recital reasonably accurate? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. WELL, I'LL SAY IT'S REASONABLY ACCURATE EXCEPT IT DOES NOT GIVE THE ACTUAL REASON FOR THE SPLIT OF THE CHURCHES. YO see, here he said: "IN ORDER BETTER TO PURSUE ITS MISSION," AS A NATIVE LANGUAGE PARISH, "AND TO ATTRACT ORTHODOX PEOPLE OF ALL NATIONAL BACKGROUNDS, S Seraphim's Church decided to acquire property of its own." WELL, THAT'S NOT THE REASON—THE REASON IS THAT WE COULDN'T GET ALONG TOGETHER, YOU SEE, AND THERE WAS A CONSTANT FIGHT BETWEEN two churches. Mr. JENNER. AND, THE FACTIONS SPLIT PRIMARILY, AS I UNDERSTAND YOUR TESTIMONY TODAY, OVER THE FATHER ROYSTER GROUP, AND I USE THAT EXPRESSION NOT TO TAG HIM, WELL, I'LL SAY THE ST. NICHOLAS CHURCH, THAT WOULD POSSIBLY BE BETTER, BECAUSE FATHER ROYSTER PREACHED IN T English language. Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right. Mr. JENNER. And in the St. Nicholas Church or parish the services were said in what language, again? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. In the old Slavic language. That's not the principal reason either. Mr. JENNER. THEN, ANOTHER REASON IS THAT THE ORGANIZERS OF THE ST. NICHOLAS CHURCH WERE, AS YOU HAVE SAID, LABELED "OLD GUARD" IN the sense that they were composed primarily of those people of Russian origin and other Slavic origins who in Europe fought—— Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Either fought or escaped. 10 Mr. JENNER. Fought the Communists or Bolsheviks or escaped from their regime. Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes—because there are lots of women and children over there, you see, they never fought against them. Mr. JENNER. Yes; there are a lot of ladies, of course, who did not fight. Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Sure. Mr. JENNER. And because of that common experience they tended to stay together? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right—more closely knit. MR. JENNER. MORE CLOSELY KNIT AND THEY HAD A PREFERENCE FOR THE USE OF THE BASIC LANGUAGE, AND THAT GROUP ORGANIZED THE ST. Nicholas Church. Mr. RAIGORODSKY. St. Nicholas was organized to begin with. Mr. JENNER. Then, you tended to support it and you have supported it and you are more active in that Church? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Sure. Mr. JENNER. You are more active by far, in fact, you are an officer of that group, are you not? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; I am president. MR. JENNER. YOU ARE PRESIDENT OF THAT GROUP, BUT YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THE OTHER PARISH OR THE OTHER CHURCH AND YOU ASSIST IT financially as a parishioner? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes, sir. MR. JENNER. IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE IN THE 1-PAGE SUMMARY PREPARED OR GIVEN TO YOU BY FATHER ROYSTER THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO comment upon? Mr. DAVIS. I would like to ask—did we ever get to the real reason for the split of the church? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I just made a statement a while ago. Mr. DAVIS. I didn't understand—what was the reason that the church was split? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, they just couldn't get along together. I mean, it's purely personality. YOU SEE, FATHER ROYSTER AT THAT TIME—THAT'S THE MAIN POINT—FATHER ROYSTER DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU OR TO ME, BUT TO LOT RUSSIANS IT MEANS EVERYTHING. YOU SEE, FATHER ROYSTER AT THAT TIME BELONGED TO THE UKRAINE BRANCH OF THE CHURCH. YOU SEE, HE COULDN'T GET ORDAINED, BUT THEN HE TRIED TO, AND I TRIED TO HELP HIM TO BE ORDAINED BY METROPOLITAN AND ANASTASIA, BUT HE COULDN'T FULFILL REQUIREMENTS SO HE TRIED TO GET IN THROUGH METROPOLITAN LEONTY. HE COULDN'T QUITE GET IN BECAUSE OF THEIR REQUIREMENTS, BUT T SUGGESTED THAT HE WILL BE ORDAINED BY THE RUSSIAN UKRANIAN CHURCH, OF WHICH FATHER JOSEPH BOGDAN, B-O-G-D-A-N [SPELLING] HAD THE jurisdiction of the UKRANIAN BRANCH OF METROPOLITAN LEONTY'S BRANCH OF THE RUSSIAN CHURCH IN THIS COUNTRY, AND SO, YOU SEE, AND THAT WAS —NOW, WE HAVE TO GO BACK THROUGH THE BASIC FACTS THAT RUSSIANS AND UKRANIANS HAVE NEVER GOTTEN ALONG TOGETHER, AND IN FACT, UKRANIANS WERE SEPARATIVE—THEY WANTED TO SEPARATE FROM THE REST OF THE RUSSIANS AND HE WILL HAVE THEIR CHURCH TO BECOME PART OF THEI parish. That was just going against the grain of every Russian. NOW, ALL THOSE THINGS TENDED TO CREATE DISSATISFACTION AND FIGHTS, I MEAN VERBAL FIGHTS, OF COURSE—NO PHYSICAL VIOLENCE OF ANY KIND BUT VERBAL FIGHTS, AND FATHER ROYSTER DECIDED TO PULL OUT AND HE ASKED ME IF I WOULD HELP HIM, AND I SAID, "SURE, AS LONG AS IT IS A GREEK Orthodox Church," and that's how it happened. YOU SEE, SOME OF THE STATEMENTS—LIKE HE SAID, "IN SEPTEMBER OF 1958 THE PARISH WAS TRANSFERRED FROM THE JURISDICTION OF BISHOP Bogdan to that of Metropolitan Leonty, the Russian Metropolia." Well, he is Russian Metropolia, but it isn't finished—in this country. Mr. JENNER. The words "in this country" should be added there? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; in the United States. I mean, those are minor, but substantially, it is correct—what he said. Mr. JENNER. With those explanations, Miss Oliver, will you please copy the historical statement into the record? The REPORTER. Yes, sir. (The instrument referred to is set forth on pp. 8 and 9 of this volume.) MR. JENNER. THESE DIFFERENCES OF OPINION, HISTORICAL, RELIGIOUS, AND OTHERWISE, AND ARGUMENTS RATHER THAN FACTS, TEND TO AFFECT ALS the views of an individual who is a member of St. Nicholas Church with respect to individuals who regularly attended St. Seraphim's? MR. RAIGORODSKY. WELL, IT'S A PECULIAR THING THAT THE PEOPLE, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, WHO HELPED MRS. OSWALD, WERE PEOPLE FROM ST. Nicholas Church. Mr. JENNER. Largely? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. SO—I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT CAME ABOUT—PERHAPS SHE IS RUSSIAN. I CAN UNDERSTAND SO MUCH—SHE IS A RUSSIAN and St. Nicholas is Russian and St. Seraphim is Eastern Orthodox. MR. JENNER. DID I UNDERSTAND YOU CORRECTLY, SIR, THAT THE PARISHIONERS, BY AND LARGE, OF ST. NICHOLAS ARE EXCLUSIVELY ANTI- Communists? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. There's no question about it. 11 Mr. JENNER. Because of the history, there's no question about it—largely? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Largely. Mr. JENNER. There are other reasons, but that substantially is one major motivating force? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right. MR. JENNER. AND WHILE THEY WOULD BE INTERESTED IN ASSISTING PERSONS WHO ARE OF RUSSIAN BIRTH, WHO WOULD COME INTO THIS COMMUNITY, WOULD THEY ALSO BE INTERESTED IN ASCERTAINING AT LEAST WHAT THEY THOUGHT MIGHT BE THE POLITICAL VIEWS OF SOMEONE WHO CAM fresh from Russia, with in turn the thought in mind that if that person or persons or family in their opinion had some affiliation with or even SYMPATHETIC TO WHAT WE IN AMERICA CALL THE COMMUNISTS IN CONTROL OF RUSSIA, THAT THESE PEOPLE IN ST. NICHOLAS WOULD HAVE AN AVERSIO to them? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. CORRECT. YOU SEE, HE ASKED THE QUESTION YOU ARE GETTING TO—THAT IS THE FIRST TIME I HEARD SHE WAS RUSSIAN—THEY TOLD ME THEY WERE INTERROGATED BY DIFFERENT BRANCHES OF THE GOVERNMENT AND THAT IS THE FIRST TIME THEY TOLD ME THAT THEY KNOW OF M OSWALD, HOW THEY HELPED HER AND EVERYTHING ELSE AND I ASKED THEM—"HOW DID IT HAPPEN?" NOW, SHE WENT TO THE CHURCH TO HAVE HER child christened. Mr. JENNER. She went to St. Nicholas? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No; St. Seraphim's. Mr. JENNER. And that caused what? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That caused them to think and to know, as they understood it, that she did it practically at the peril of her life. Mr. JENNER. She did what? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. She did it at the peril of her life—— Mr. JENNER. You mean they objected? MR. RAIGORODSKY. BECAUSE HE TOLD HER SHE CANNOT DO THAT, SHE HAD TO SNEAK OUT WITH THAT CHILD TO BE CHRISTENED AND SINCE Communists are atheists, they knew that she could not possibly be Communists. Mr. JENNER. You heard afterwards that Marina had had her child baptized in St. Seraphim's? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right. Mr. JENNER. AND THOSE PERSONS THEN IN YOUR CHURCH, THE ST. NICHOLAS CHURCH, CITED THAT AS BEING A FACT WHICH LED THEM TO BELIEVE THAT SHE BELIEVED IN THE LORD AND WAS THEREFORE NOT AN ATHEIST, THAT IT WAS A FACTOR THAT LED THEM IN TURN TO BELIEVE THAT SHE WAS N Communist, because Communists are atheists? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right. Mr. JENNER. WHEREAS, YOU ACCEPTED THAT AS A FACTOR TO CONSIDER, BUT THERE OCCURRED TO YOU A COUNTERVAILING CONSIDERATION, WHICH was—— Mr. RAIGORODSKY. CORRECT—WHICH WAS THAT THE COMMUNISTS MAY HAVE BEEN—IF IT WAS A CONSPIRACY, THAT WOULD TO ME HAVE BEEN the best way to get into the good graces of the Russian Church community. Mr. JENNER. Lead people to believe that you were a Christian? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right. Mr. JENNER. And not an atheist? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right. Mr. JENNER. And seek by that stratagem to gain their confidence? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's correct. Mr. JENNER. SO THAT THAT FACTOR, WHATEVER IT WAS, HAD TO BE EXAMINED AND HELD IN ABEYANCE SO YOU WOULDN'T JUMP TO A CONCLUSION from that one thing? MR. RAIGORODSKY. YOU SEE—I DON'T TRUST THEM IN ANY KIND OF A CONDITION OR ANY KIND OF A STATEMENT THAT THEY MAKE. IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE, BUT IN FACT, I KNOW IT ISN'T TRUTHFUL—IT'S JUST LIKE MR. GROMYKO LYING TO PRESIDENT KENNEDY SITTING IN HIS OFFICE, KNOW, LYING JUST LIKE A TROOPER AND THEN KNOWING THAT IT WASN'T SO, BUT HE LIED. I DON'T HAVE TO TELL YOU ALL ABOUT WHAT COMMUNISTS DO how they operate. Mr. JENNER. Did there in due course come into this community a man by the name of George De Mohrenschildt? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes, sir. Mr. JENNER. And you were here when he came here, were you? MR. RAIGORODSKY. WELL, LET'S SAY THAT I MET GEORGE DE MOHRENSCHILDT IN DALLAS WHILE I WAS COMING HERE, JUST—YOU KNOW—JUST occasionally to see my friends, probably about, I'll say 15 or 17 years ago, somewhere in that neighborhood. Mr. JENNER. Had you heard of him prior to that time? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; I heard of him through Jake Hamon. 12 Mr. JENNER. Through Mr. Hamon? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Hamon, H-a-m-o-n [spelling]—Jake. Mr. JENNER. Who is he? MR. RAIGORODSKY. HE IS AN OILMAN FRIEND OF MINE HERE, QUITE WELL KNOWN, AND HE TOLD ME THERE WAS A RUSSIAN HERE—DO I KNOW him, and I said, "No; I hadn't heard about him." That's how I met him—at a party. Mr. JENNER. You are talking about George De Mohrenschildt? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes. MR. JENNER. IN THIS 17-YEAR PERIOD FROM THAT INITIAL ACQUAINTANCE TO THE PRESENT TIME, HAD YOU COME TO KNOW GEORGE DE Mohrenschildt and acquire some knowledge of his origin and background? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I believe so. Mr. JENNER. WOULD YOU PLEASE RECITE IT TO US—WHO IS HE, WHAT IS HIS HISTORY, HIS MARRIAGES, THE NATIVITY OF THE LADIES HE MARRIED AND some of his activities, leaving until a little bit later in the questioning the business associations or contacts you may have had with him? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, from what I understand, George De Mohrenschildt comes from what we call by-the-Baltic Germans. Mr. JENNER. What is—by-the-Baltic Germans? MR. RAIGORODSKY. THE BY-THE-BALTIC GERMANS ARE GERMANS THAT LIVED BY THE BALTIC SEA AND THEY WERE RUSSIANS OR RATHER, RUSSIAFIED GERMANS AND THEY WERE IN THE SERVICE OF THE CZAR FOR GENERATIONS AND GENERATIONS AND WERE CONSIDERED RUSSIANS. MOST OF THEM WERE BARONS, YOU KNOW, AND I DON'T KNOW WHETHER GEORGE'S FAMILY WERE OR NOT, BUT THE "DE" MOHRENSCHILDT SIGNIFIES THAT HIS FAMILY had a title. Mr. JENNER. That's the "de"? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. THE "DE"—YES; IT SIGNIFIES THAT. NOW, I UNDERSTAND THAT HE HAS A FRIEND OR HIS BROTHER IS TEACHING, I BELIEVE, AT THE University of Chicago. Mr. JENNER. Is that the University of Chicago or Dartmouth? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Or what? Mr. JENNER. Dartmouth, or the University of Chicago? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. It might be, now, but at that time when I first learned it—he was at the University of Chicago. Mr. JENNER. And his first name? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I don't remember. Mr. JENNER. What did you say his first name was? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I don't remember. Mr. JENNER. I thought you gave it to me the other day? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No. Mr. JENNER. Maybe I could get it from some other source? MR. RAIGORODSKY. NO—NOT FROM ME. NOW, WHEN I FIRST KNEW GEORGE HE WAS AN ENGINEER IN CHARGE OF THE OPERATIONS OF THE RANGLEY FIELD IN COLORADO. THEN, HE QUIT THE JOB AND WENT INTO THE BUSINESS O...