STEWART INDIAN SCHOOL ORAL HISTORY PROJECT STEWART FOR THE LONG TERM: AN INTERVIEW WITH ROGER SAM Interviewed by Terri McBride Transcribed by Barbara L. Zeigler Funded by: Nevada Indian Commission © Funded by: Copyright 2017 Nevada Indian Commission 5366 Snyder Avenue Carson City, Nevada 89701 Stewart For The Long Term: An Interview with Roger Sam Roger Sam is a Northern Paiute man from the Pyramid Lake area in northwestern Nevada. He first came to Stewart Indian School as a fourteen year-old, graduated, completed military service and then returned to Stewart as an employee. He raised his family while supervising the school’s working ranch, Jack’s Valley Ranch. He trained hundreds of boys in agricultural skills over the years and found time to assist in coaching football and basketball at Stewart, and boxing to kids in Carson City. He also mentored young people in the regional 4-H Clubs. Without a doubt, Roger Sam is the longest-lasting figure on the Stewart campus, having been there from 1943 as a student until the school’s closure in 1980 (excluding his military service, 1948-1952). He was inducted into the Stewart Hall of Fame in 1974, for excellence in basketball and football. My name is Terri McBride. It is Thursday, May Were there communication problems between 4, 2017. We are at the Pyramid Lake Paiute the parents and the children? Tribe’s museum in Nixon, Nevada. The interview is with Roger Sam, a former student There was no problem at all. and employee at the Stewart Indian School. We And growing up with your family, did you will be discussing his experiences there during celebrate American Indian customs like his time at Stewart. This interview is being celebrations or traditions? conducted for the Stewart Indian School Oral History Project for the Nevada Indian No, not really, just what they call pageant or the Commission and will be archived at the Stewart Indian dancing and ceremonies like that. That’s Indian School Cultural Center, the State Library about all. and Archives, Special Collections at the University of Nevada, Reno, and also by request, Right. Did you go pine-nutting? at the Pyramid Lake Paiute Tribal Museum. No, not at that time. There really wasn’t too So Roger, when were you born and where are much push for pine nuts in those days. you from? Were any of your other family members I was born in Wadsworth, Nevada, and I’m from educated at Stewart? Nixon, Nevada, and I was born on December 24, They went to Stewart. My older sister, Eunice, 1929. and my brother, Louie. They were in Stewart A Christmas Eve baby! And how many people and we used to go by wagon to go visit them. were in your family? Take two days over and then two days back. There was five of us. A sister and a brother, my So you were the youngest? mom, Ida Curry and my dad, Willie Sam. I was the youngest, yeah. What language did you speak growing up in And what years did you attend school there? your household? I went to school there in 1943 up until 1948, I Mostly it was talked Paiute at the time, and then graduated. English, also. How did you end up going to Stewart in the first place? Stewart Indian School Oral History Project: Roger Sam My parents were getting a divorce and the judge and uh, I had contact with her for a lotta years ordered me to attend Stewart. I didn’t have no after I got in the service because she originally choice. was from Virginia, and that’s where I was stationed was in Virginia and then—it’s a pretty Right. And so, when they got divorced, were place. you—was your mom your main guardian? What was the most difficult thing to leave behind I was back and forth, back and forth. at home though? Alright. Alright, shared custody. From here after I got sent away? Well, that was before the custody. When Yeah. custody came they sent me away. (laughs) Oh, I had chickens and I had horses and I had Okay, right, and so, were your brother—was dogs, and my chickens were my only income your brother and sister—were they there when that I had. We’d take the eggs to the store for you got there? exchange of groceries and, you know, we got by No, they’re older. One was eighteen years older good with that. And I kept them long after I got and the other one was fourteen years older, the into Stewart then they finally decided well, you boy. know, it was too much for the older folks so they decided to get rid of the chickens and ended up So you visited your brother and sister when you with the horses and puppies. That’s about all. were little before you went, but what was your first impression of the school when you got Well, how did your—how did your family feel there? about you leaving Nixon and going all the way down there? Did they miss you? Well, I woke up next morning when the, after they dropped me off and everything was nice I don’t know. I was staying both places, you place, pretty. Buildings and trees and lawns. know, back and forth but I don’t know, they People called it the “Oasis of Nevada,” which it probably didn’t have any say to it, anything to probably was. It was a really pretty place. do about it. They’d just come and pick me up and left with what clothes I had on, and a few Did you enjoy being a student there? little things that I could pick up and that was it! I loved it! I enjoyed livin’ after I got used to the So I’d like to ask a little about campus life. So routine and, and, you know, everything you do is what was living in the dorms like? all by time. After I got used to livin’ in the dorms, it was Right. nice. I had good roommates and we all kept our place, area, clean and we all had details to do You gotta be here, there, everything’s done on and this is all by time, too, also. You had to get time so, after once I got used to that, it was nice. done before breakfast and, uh, get ready for Good! So, well, we’ll talk about the sports and school and once I got used to the routine, it was stuff later but, so, you just liked what, the a nice place. teachers? You liked the classes? You liked the How old were you when you first went to the kids that you went to school with? All of it? school? Yeah, I, I enjoyed . . . I had teachers, favorite When I first went to school? teachers and my coaches and, uh, Walter Johnson was my teacher. Pretty nice man. And Yeah. our librarian and science was Miss Delia Taylor 2 Stewart Indian School Oral History Project: Roger Sam Roger’s Stewart Basketball Photo, ca. 1947. He is second from right. Courtesy of Roger Sam. What do you mean, like grade school? middle of the room where I had roommates on both sides that were Washoes. (laughs) So they Yeah, so, were you in the little boys’ dorm first were talkin’ over and back and forth. and then moved to the big boys’ . . . ? And keeping an eye on you! When they took me over there, I was in seventh grade. They dropped me off at the small boys’ Yeah! So, pretty soon they said, they asked me building. They said, “This is where you’re if I wanted to move my bed. I said, “Yeah!” So gonna stay.” So, they assigned me a bed and they put me on the end and they moved the other everything and, uh, next morning they called me guy closer to the conversation track. (laughs) into the office and told me that they had talked it Right, so they could talk amongst themselves. over with, you know, among themselves and And the dining hall; I have heard that the checked my, I don’t know, what they checked students had to march in single file to the dining but they said I was advanced enough that I was, hall. Did they do that when you were there? I could go over to the boys’ building. So, I ended up over in Cottage 1. I ended in Cottage They still do that but you know I marched one, 1 with, uh, kids from Gardnerville, Washoe kids. one evening meal with them, the evening I got Five of—four of them and they got kinda gang-y there and all the other kids were in coveralls, for a while, but after I got used to them, it was a little belts that they wear. Blue, blue coveralls. pretty nice place, and they put me right in the I hadn’t been issued my blue coveralls yet so I 3 Stewart Indian School Oral History Project: Roger Sam was still in my clothes but next morning I got up were unharnessed and then I’m ready to go back and they said, “Well, you’re gonna be movin’ to to school. You know, I, I enjoyed that! But it the big boys’ area.” So, that eliminated my only last a week. coverall march. (laughs) Did you ever buy things at the student store, that Right, right! Okay, and so what were meals in Novake? the dining hall like? Did the boys and girls have No, at that time, that store was, uh, it was called to sit separately? ECA store and it was located right across, across Well, some, some of the younger ones stayed on the school building, two-story building that . . . one side. The older ones ate together. and at recess time everybody would end up over there at the store anyway ‘cuz it’s open all day Okay, and what was the food like? long and, uh, get little snacks before you go back Food was good. I had, I had more food than the to class and I’d generally buy Pepsi or peanuts rest of them, I think, ‘cuz that week I was there and stuff for after practice. we were talkin’ in our room and talkin’ to my Roger, did you have a favorite class? friend and he was askin’ me what I did during the summers and I said, “Well, I, when we doin’ I have classes that I like. Uh, science, Walter our hay and stuff, I would drive the wagon for Johnson, my teacher, and then Miss Taylor— my dad and another man that was our helper,” she’s the librarian, and I think she taught science and I says, “I drove the wagon for them,” and I or some, yeah, I think science or, oh, history, don’t know, somehow, well, the guy who did the yeah. That’s right, history. delivery of the milk, the milk wagon, went on History? So, you liked Miss Taylor—or Mrs. vacation, and I got called to the office, and man, Taylor? I was scared! “What’d I do?” you know, and this guy that was our supervisor that day, he Miss. was, uh, from Poland and he’s a rough-talkin’ Miss, yeah, okay, history class and she was also man and just by talking to you, you think you’re the school librarian? getting scolded, and so he asked me in a tough voice, he said, “I understand you drive wagon.” Yeah. I said, “Yeah.” Right then I felt good, ‘cuz that wasn’t, well, they asked me if I could—it was a Did you spend a lot of time in the library? week I think I worked—if I could deliver the Yeah, I spent a lot of time in the library. milk and, uh, so I said, “Yeah, I can drive that (laughs) wagon,” and so they sent me down there to, uh, to the dairy and then the older boys loaded the Uh-huh, getting your homework done. And so, milk onto the wagon and this is all driven by you were involved in the school agriculture horse and wagon. Wasn’t a truck, was a horse, program? so, that’s how I got my job deliverin’ milk and I was, that was, that was a funny thing. I was, stuff. I had to deliver milk to the bakery and, we . . . they gave us, uh, exploratory classes. uh, sometimes I’d get a treat from Mr. Larson, You went to Agriculture. You went to that was our baker, and then the cooks at the Plumbing, Carpentry, Welding, Shoemaking, kitchen always had somethin’ extra, and then the and, uh, Paint Shop. So, I chose mostly Ag Employees’ Club always . . . the lady, her name because, when I was at home, we had animals. was Tropha. I always remember her, and she You know, I had cattle with my dad and—but he always had a sandwich or something. So, I done most of the work when I was with him— enjoyed that week and I ate good! (laughs) Then but then when I went to school and they sent me I went back to, back to the dairy and the animals 4 Stewart Indian School Oral History Project: Roger Sam Roger’s Stewart Football Team Photo, ca. 1947. Roger is top row, farthest left. Courtesy of Roger Sam. to the exploratory program, it was feeding, It was, and I still do that. When I retired, got rid nutrition, castrating, dehorning, and branding of my cattle, I was still doin’ it. and things like that—animal husbandry—and I Oh! So you graduated from Stewart . . . enjoyed that part. That summer, I was fourteen then, I come home and they were havin’ a In, 19 . . . graduated in 1948. roundup at home. So I asked my dad, they call Quickly, let’s talk about sports. So what did you his name, roped his calf and they call his name play while you were there? and I asked my dad, I said, “Can I do that? Can I go and dehorn and castrate that?” And he I played football. I played football and looked at me and he kinda whimpered a little bit basketball, baseball. and said, “Okay, go ahead,” you know, so I went and done all my job, vaccinated, castrated, Did you have a favorite? dehorned, and I impressed him so much, even Basketball, my favorite, yeah. Football, I didn’t the other guys, the older ones, I was doing their know anything about. Oh, I got . . . and work ‘cuz they get on the ground . . . they can’t basketball, I was picked First Team, All- get up, some of them, you know! (laughs) And, Conference, and I played forward, and football I so, I was doin’ that too, while I was fourteen was picked also All-Conference and quarterback years old! and guard and center. Right! They were willing to let you do it, yeah! Oh! What do you mean, “All-Conference?” Yeah, it was really a skill that I learned and I What is that? really put it to, you know, work. I enjoyed that! It’s, uh, from all the schools, they pick out Yeah, it sounds like it was a natural fit for you. eleven outstanding players and put ‘em in 5 Stewart Indian School Oral History Project: Roger Sam different positions. Like guard, like basketball That sounds fun. would be two forwards, a center, and two And different—different, different classes would guards. They’re picked from all the schools. put on different types of programs, skits and The top individual players and they make up a . . stuff. . Did the band play in there? So like an all-star team. No, they did mostly their marching. They Yeah, it’s from, from the day that you started participated in the Nevada Day Parade and . . . playing the season ‘til the end of the season, how you compared during the year is how they . . . and at the games? Did they play at the judge your . . . games? Your statistics! Some of the games, yeah. Yeah. So, that’s how they picked them. And when you went, Roger—in the auditorium— did they make the boys sit on one side and the Uh-huh, oh! Okay, so all-star teams, basically. girls . . . ? Football, the same way. Then they got First No, they were pretty well . . . Team, and they got Second Team, and they got Honorable Mention. . . . mixed. So was this your senior year that this all Mixed up, yeah. happened? Sit by each other, okay. And then, were you in Yeah. any clubs? Wow, great! And did you go to watch sports Yeah, we—I was in Lettermen’s Club. Yeah, events there? Were you a spectator sometimes you have to earn your way into the—like you too? had eight games, you have to play over half the quarters of that season to qualify for a letter. Oh yeah, we have, we have, uh, boxing. Then Then you become a Yannigan and then you, uh, we have track. We’d go over and watch. have that for maybe six weeks or some even, if Okay. they don’t have enough, they make you go a little longer and you perform every Sunday, That’s where Rolf [Brown] and his brother, they some dining hall time. You get up on a table fought, they fought. and sing and dance and, and things like that or Rolf and Ralph Brown. run errands for the Lettermen’s to go get a slice of bread, or a piece of meat or somethin’. A lotta fighters; they had a lotta fighters come outta Stewart. So when you’re a Yannigan, it’s like you’re a pledge. What kinds—what kinds of events did you do in the auditorium? Yeah. Well, there’s not really that much. You’d go to Yeah, so you have to make your way through movies. Then they have, uh, talent shows. that and then you’re a Letterman. Right, but in the meantime—so they hazed you, basically. Okay, student talent shows? Basically, yeah. The one I really hated was Yeah. they’d line you up on, uh, on the sidewalk at the 6 Stewart Indian School Oral History Project: Roger Sam bakery and there’s a bunch of trees over behind Okay! So you never went to the infirmary for the ECA store, which is about 150 yards away, anything else? then they paddle you and send you off, then you Oh, yeah, if you had a cold or somethin’. outrun the Lettermens, and climb a tree and then you have to sing your theme song. Okay. In the tree? Vaccination or something. They call you. They let you know. So, other than that—oh, dental. Yeah, in the tree after you get up there. You know, you go to dental. Uh-huh. So, you get checkups? My theme song was “My Darling Clementine.” Yeah. (laughter) And I don’t even know the words anymore! I had to learn it then though, And did you attend church when you were at otherwise you got paddled! Then after that, they Stewart? have the . . . just before school’s out in May, is Yes, there was only one church there on campus, the last part of the initiation. They take you the Baptist Church, and everybody—no matter down to the river and they have a midnight what denomination you were—you all end up picnic, party, or whatever you want to call it, but goin’ to the Baptist. That was the only one anyway, that’s where you get your butt whipped there. Generally, we’d always go in the evening. and become a Letterman, and jump into the Carson River at twenty below zero. (laughs) And then, did you ever leave campus? Go into town? Right, right, polar plunge! And then regarding the other buildings on campus: do you have any Oh, yeah, we’d go to town. memories about a particular building that stand out to you? Uh-huh. What’d you do there? I’d say the gymnasium. Oh, go to movies and . . . but away, away from there on sports travel team, you get to travel a lot The old gym? to go to the other schools on the weekends. The old gym, yeah, ‘cuz I spent more time in the Did you have a job during school or some of gym doin’ this and doin’ that; either setting up that weekend work? Did you do any of that? something for something else or I spent a lot of time in gym and the Ag Department. There No, not weekend work but we had regular detail were animals to be fed and stuff. thing that we do on Saturdays. Scrub the floor, mop the floor and all this. Oh, then I stayed Did you get sick at Stewart? Did you have to go there in 1947 during the summer I worked. I to the infirmary? went up and worked as a painter one day and I asked them, “Do you need help for the I had to go to the infirmary in 1945, ’44, summer?” He said, “Yeah!” That was painting somewhere. I don’t remember. Had my tonsils the buildings on campus and, uh, painting what out. Had ‘em taken out. Stayed over in the has to be done in the dorms and stuff. So, I clinic one night and the next day they said, stayed there that one summer to make money to “Well, you’re well enough, you can go back to buy clothes and things for the last year. the dorm.” (laughs) So, I was in and out. And so did you know—did you have any friends Were they nice there? from home, from Nixon or Wadsworth there? Yeah. 7 Stewart Indian School Oral History Project: Roger Sam Oh, yeah. We had quite few friends. I can just Yeah, I was stationed in Virginia and then I name a couple. There’s uh, Albert Phoenix, Earl would write to her and tell her how pretty, you Dunn, James Jim, Harold Aleck. There’s just know, the Shenandoah Valley was and, uh, name a few. Les Eben, but there’s some she’d always tried to write letters back and tell younger ones then, that were there that hadn’t me news about Stewart, and kids. been playing sports with us. So, there’s younger Okay. That’s nice! kids like Lyle Poncho and some of those, but they played later. And she was really, I guess she was the only one for at least a couple years, anyway, ‘cuz we went So, wow, you named several. So you have some on a basketball tour up through Shenandoah good memories of your classmates? Valley and down up into, uh, Pennsylvania, and Yeah, I have the ones that I played ball with ‘cuz down to Tennessee, and then back home. Eight we live side by side all the time and played ball days we were gone. They had a converted bus, side by side and you know, it, it just. . . . made some bunks in the back so if you’re tired you can lay in the back. Well, that brings me to a question that comes up later but I’ll ask you right now. So on your So you played basketball while you were in the teams you had kids from tribes from all over service? playin’ all together, right? Yes. Yeah. And you toured? Your team toured around out And so, what was it like to go to school with kids there. Neat! So what kind of student were you, from all over the place? Roger? Were you shy? Well, you know, it . . . once, uh, once a team is I was shy, yeah. developed, it just seemed like it just one person, Were you, were you quiet? Were you happy, one people and nobody was outstanding more were you a happy student? Or sad? than the other or just all together and that’s the only thing that I can think of. I was happy and a little shy. (laughs) Did you learn about different native cultures by Okay, and so what were your goals? What were going to school with kids from different places? your future plans as you were graduating? No, it seemed like you never do talk things like Well, I knew I was goin’ to be goin’ into the that. I never did. Once in a while you talk about service sometime so that was my first, was to get animals at home, stuff. That was, you know . . . my military duty out of the way and I went right in after I graduated. I went a couple days outta Typical kid stuff. school and, uh, enlisted in the Navy. Two of us. Yeah, but that was, but they got along pretty Ryan Williams, one of my teammates. He and I good. Everything was fine. both went in at the same time and we both end up in Virginia. (laughs) Okay. So did you keep in touch with classmates or teachers after school? Rolf Brown also enlisted in the Navy. Not really. I think so, yeah. You said you kept in touch with Miss Taylor And he said that his coach drove him up to the because you were stationed out there. recruiter’s office up in Reno, like the week of 8