PROBING ISLAM A Debate Between Javed Ahmad Ghamidi and Khalid Zaheer vs. Ali Sina ©2007Permission is granted totranslate,publish anddistribute thisbookby any means,including forfinancialgain. About This document is an extensive and comprehensive debate between Mr. Javed Ahmad Ghamidi, one of the world’s top Islamic scholars from Pakistanand Ali Sina, one of the leading criticsof Islam and the founder of faithfreedom.org. This debate was arranged when someone invited Mr. Ghamidi to respond to Ali Sina’s criticisms of Islam. Mr. Ghamidi entered into this debate through his student, Dr. Khalid Zaheer. 1 An Invitation toDebate From: Free Inquirer <[email protected]> Invitation to a Debate Sep 4, 2006 During the recent years,Islam has become the target of severecriticism and vilification,not just by members of other religions butalsoby a growing number of ex-Muslims. The Internet has allowed these critics to come out and speak their minds at an alarming rate. These criticisms have had devastating effectson the minds of the Muslim youths,whoareunable to answer the critics on their ownandare bewildered that the Islamic scholars also have not come forth with satisfactory answers. In the interest of unraveling the truth about Islam and clearing the minds of the young Muslims,I am formally inviting the Islamic critic Ali Sina and the modern Pakistani ‘state appointed’ Islamic Scholar Javed Ahmed Ghamidi to engage in a debate on Islam. ALI SINA Ali Sina is probably one of the most eminent critics of Islam. Herenounced Islam after reading the Quranandhas managed to create a movement against Islam and has grouped together alarge number of ex-Muslims who share his opinions on Islam. He has challenged Islamicscholars to disprove the fallacies that he has identified in the Quran andhadith. JAVED AHMAD GHAMIDI Javed Ahmad Ghamidiis a respected Islamic Scholar who has been recently appointed by the Pakistani Government to help facilitate the government in forming a‘modern’ interpretation of Islam and to doijtihadfor the development of a cosmopolitan modern Islamic Society. Javed Ghamidi has been under the tutelage of Amin Ehsan Islahi and idealizes the writings of his teacher with utmost reverence. Initially expelled from Jamaat-e-Islami due to some difference with the party’s founder Maududi, Ghamidi has managed to develop a restricted following of his own. He has been actively involved in the government’s 2 initiative to revamp and restructure Islamicordinances in Pakistan like Hudood Ordinance and Zina Ordinance. He is also the president of the Al-Mawrid Institute based in Lahore. Javed Ghamidi also enjoys a good company of his students who teach in various places in Pakistan. Most notable are Moiz Amjad, Asif Iftikhar, Khalid Zaheerandothers.Mr. Ghamidi operates through a network ofDanish Saras(Houses of Learning)across Pakistan and has some major Islamic Sites to his credit.He also publishes various magazines in Urdu and English, such asIshraqandRenaissance. The Challenge to a Debate This is an invitation to Ali Sina and Javed Ahmed Ghamidi to debate on the validity of claims made by Islam and whether Islam is atrue religion. Both parties are invited to provide answers to each other’s arguments.  The debate will be conducted over emails and will be published on the Faith Freedom InternationalWebsite for the benefit of common public.  The points on which the debate shall be done will be agreed upon first by the two parties to ensure that the core issue is addressed properly. However it is preferable that Ali Sina’s arguments be thoroughly studied onhttp://www.faithfreedom.org /challenge.htmto restrict the debate only to main points of disagreement.  Complete references should be given by both parties to support their arguments for thebenefit of the reader.  Any other points on which both sides would like to agree upon. The debate is subjected to acceptance on both sides. Failure of acceptance of the debate by any one side shall be deemed as a failure to provide a logical and truthful response to supportthe other’sideasorideology. Dear Free Enquirer, I published your invitation to announce my acceptance to debate with Mr. Javed Ahmad Ghamidi. It would be an honor to discus important points of disagreement on Islam with such an eminent scholar. Please inform Mr. Ghamidi that I look forward to meet him virtually. 3 I have given countless proofs that Islam is not a true religion. Mr. Ghamidi is invited to disprove any of my claims, or if he prefers, he could give one single irrefutable proof that Islam is indeed a true religion sent by God. In either case, should Mr. Ghamidi disprove any of my charges against Muhammad and Islam,or provide a single irrefutable proof that Islam is from God, I promise to publicly acknowledge that I have been mistaken andI shall removemy site faithfreedom.org permanently. Furthermore I am offeringa US$50,000 reward to anyone who can showthatIslam is a true religion,orthat at least my charges against Muhammad are unfounded. Greetings, Ali Sina I am glad to inform the dear readers of FFI that Mr. Ghamidi has expressed his readiness to discuss Islam with me. I would like to thank Free Inquirer for making this debate possible and forinviting Mr. Ghamidi and myselfto take part in thisinformative and educational debate. I trust this would be a very fruitful discussion. I read some of Mr. Ghamidi's articles and he has made a very positive impression on me. He is one of Pakistan's most respected scholars and I am honored that despite hisbusy schedule, he has accepted this invitation. Mr. Ghamidi is a man of peace and a moderate Muslim. Here is the letter of acceptance that I received from his office. Ali Sina. From: "khalid zaheer" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: Mr Ghamidi's Response Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 Dear Free Inquirer Thank you very much for taking interest in arranging a dialogue between Mr.Ghamidi and Mr.Ali Sina. First of all, we would like you to correct this fact: Mr Javed AhmadGhamidi has not been appointed by the Government of Pakistan to help it in interpreting Islam in a modern way. Mr. Ghamidi was asked by the President of Pakistan to 4 be a member of the Council of Islamic Ideology, which is a constitutional body that suggests responses to various issues confronting the people of Pakistan in the interpretation of the message of Islam. He accepted that offer in the spirit of informing the rulers about what he thinks is the right understanding of Islam quite the same way as he has been informing people about it in the last 35 years. We welcome the initiative you have taken to enable Mr. Ali Sina to ask Mr. Ghamidi questions about of Islam that create doubts in his mind about the truthfulness of the claim that it is a message from God. Mr. Ghamidi has been performing this task for the last three-and-a-half decades and there is no reason why we wouldn’t want to share our research with a person like Mr. Sina. However, what he doesn’t want to do is to engage in a polemic which results in a senseless competition of rhetoric wherein the contestants are in reality playing a game in the garb of an academic debate. The difference between a polemic and a serious academic exchange is that one is a fiercely contested debate with a clear objective to not understand and accept what is true but to defeat the opposing party, while the other engages both parties in a serious exchange of views with a view to know and acknowledge what the truth is. The participants are close-minded in the case of theformer and open to truth in the case of the latter. Mr. Ghamidi hates the former and welcomes the latter. Finally, before starting this process, we would like Mr. Sina to have a look at the attached pageswhich outline the basic approachMr.Ghamidi follows in forming his religious opinions. It is important that the sources of information he thinks are original for Islamic learning and therefore are the basis of his research should first be understood to preclude any possibility that Mr. Sina demands from him explanation of information and concepts that Mr. Ghamidi thinks do not belong to the original message of Islam. After Mr. Sina has gone through this message along with the attachedoutline of Mr. Ghamidi’s approach to understanding the message of Islam, we would welcome suggestions from your side to convert this opportunity into a meaningful dialogue. Khalid Zaheer (This message has been written in consultation with Mr Ghamidi.) http://www.khalidzaheer.com/about.html Dr Khalid Zaheer is an associate professor of Islamic Studies and Ethics at Lahore University of Management Science (LUMS). He has a teaching 5 experience of morethan 16 years. Prior to joining LUMS, he taught at IBA and Punjab University for 12 years as a permanent faculty member. He has also taught at various other educational institutions in Lahore. Dr. Zaheer delivers lectures in Pakistan Administrative Staff College, National Institute of Public Administration, Pakistan Audit and Accounts Training Institute, and Lahore School of Economics. Dr Zaheer’s PhD dissertation focused on Interest-Free Banking. His areas of interest are Islamic banking and application ofIslamic principles in contemporary business environment. He is a member of the task force constituted by the Ministry of Finance to propose measures to convert government domestic borrowing into project-related financing according to Shariah injunctions.He is also a member of the Board of Management of the Pakistan Baitul Mal. He regularly contributes articles to the monthly Renaissance, a leading religious English journal of the country. Dr. Zaheer has appeared in many television programs and has also given sermons at mosques. 6 Part I Ali Sina's response: 2006/09/16 Dear Mr. Khalid Zaheer: I am glad and honored that Mr. Javed Ahmad Ghamidi has accepted the invitation of Free Inquirer to debate with me. I am also pleased that you have agreed to share your knowledge with us and respond to my questions. Unfortunately,most Muslim scholars are not as open-minded as your good self and Mr. Ghamidi. They seem to have boycotted me and prefer to ignore me. The truth is that the questions that I have raised are making the public–both Muslim and non-Muslim–talk. The reluctance of Muslim scholars to respond to my questions reflects poorly on them and also on Islam. Therefore,it is heartening to find a real scholar who is confident enough to not shirk from confronting a “renegade” apostate like yours truly. You emphasized on the futility of engaging in “a polemic which results in a senseless competition of rhetoric wherein the contestants are in reality playing a game in the garb of an academic debate.”I cannot agree more and let me add that I admire your positive attitude and your commitment to the truth. This is indeed a rare quality and it speaks volumes about your, and Mr. Ghamidi’s,integrity as true scholars. Our goal, as you stated, should be to unravel the truth and not to childishly try to win the argument at any cost. Since this debate will be posted on the Internet for everyone to see, I am sure our readers do not expect anything less from either one of us. An immature behavior would be tantamount to shooting ourselves in the foot. When the objective is to find the truth, talking about “defeating the other party” is puerile. How can one be defeated when at the end of the debate truth triumphs and we all learn something? The triumph of the truth means victory for everyone. The one who learns more is the bigger winner and it is in this sense alone that I hope to be a winner. Only those who have inflated egos will feel defeated once proven wrong. I was born ignorant and still I am to a great extent. Ilearned everything I know from others. I am not ashamed for being ignorant. It is haughtiness, condescendence and obstinacy that are shameful. You know better than me that ego acts as a veil to enlightenment and understanding. 7 To know that you don't know is the foundation of all wisdom. Willing to doubt what you know is the virtue of the sage. Haughtiness and arrogance are the traits of the fool. Since we both are after the truth, I am sure this discussion willbea win-win casefor both of us and also for our readers. I read the page you sent me as attachment and I fully agree with its content. Let me assure you that I am not going to present any argument that is not in the Quran, the Sahih Hadith (Sahih Al-Bukhari,SahihMuslim,andSunan Abu-Dawud),and the Sira (byIbn Ishaq,Al-Tabari,andIbn Sa’d) as evidence. I may quote Muslims scholars to make an example but our discussion will be only on the above-mentioned sources. Let us begin without further ado. I will address now Mr. Ghamidi. My first question is aboutintercession. Dear Mr. Ghamidi:In your bookAl-Bayanyou have made it clear that intercession, as believed by many Muslims, is a myth. You quoted the following verses of the Quran to back up your claim: [A reward] from the Lord of the heavens and the earth and all that lies between them; the most Gracious–there is no one whohasthe authoritytospeakonHisbehalf. On the Day when Gabriel and the angels will stand arrayed [before Him]. [The Day] when only they will speak whom the most Gracious allows and who speak the truth.(78:37- 38) In the footnote you wrote the following explanation:“This and the next two verses strongly negate thephilosophy of mediation and intercession. The angels whom the polytheists believe to be their intercessors will themselves respectfully stand before the Almighty on the Day of Judgement. No one will have the position to speak on behalf of the Almighty. Only they will speak whom the Almighty permits and they too will not be able to utter anything false.”1 1Shehzad Saleem, Renaissance, “Suras Mursalat–Naba”, http://www.renaissance.com.pk/seocqur97.html. 8