Fort Hunt Oral History P.O. Box 1142 Interview with Arnold Kohn by Brandon Bies and Vincent Santucci February 13, 2008 BRANDON BIES: Today is February 13, 2008. This is an oral history interview as part of the Fort Hunt Oral History Project with the National Park Service. We are here at the home of Mr. Arnold Kohn in Pacific Grove, California. Again, this is National Park Service, so this is Brandon Bies as well as Parkway Chief Ranger Vincent Santucci, and we’re also joined by Colonel Steven Kleinman. With that, Mr. Kohn, would you mind just starting off with your basic information, such as when and where you were born? ARNOLD KOHN: I was born in Boston, Massachusetts. I think I kept the same accent, for some reason. My father was a physician and was director of [01:00] laboratories for the city of Boston. When war started, he lost his position because they were making shots for the military, and since he was born in Germany, there was pressure on him to resign. He then, as I recall, took a medical mission on the JDC to Poland, to help rebuild hospitals and health facilities, and we joined him there. My mother and my brother joined him there a year or so later. So we stayed [02:00] in Poland and Germany for a couple of years. Later, my father went back to Europe, was successful in some of his work in France, and asked us to come back, sent us first-class tickets. Unfortunately, by the time we got to Paris, he was no longer successful, so we had a villa for about a year, and there was a car someplace, but there was no money for the chauffeur, the gardener, or anybody else, so he kind of roughed it. Then from there I think we went to Germany for a year, and I went back [03:00] to kindergarten. I had gone through kindergarten or first grade in Paris. As a matter of fact, I’d been in kindergarten in Poland, Germany, France, and England [laughs]. We came back to the United States in 1927, and I joined the Army after Pearl Harbor [03:31], immediately went down to the recruiting office, but they said Arnold Kohn 2 February 13, 2008 they were closed because it was Sunday and I should come back on Monday. I did, and a week or so later I was inducted to the Army, went down to Fort Bragg [03:55] as a cannoneer and truck driver [04:00]. BB: I apologize for interrupting, but just a couple of quick questions before that. First, I’m not sure if you already said, what year were you born in? AK: 1917. BB: Okay. And growing up, this experience spending time overseas as well as the United States, what languages did you speak at this time? AK: I spoke kindergarten German, kindergarten French, and British. So that when I finally came back to the United States, people made fun of my accent, English accent. I actually had to almost relearn English. But I have retained -- as an asset, I have retained [05:00] a basic German sense of vowels as well as the French, so my accent, even though my vocabulary is very poor, my accent was pretty good. In Germany I could pass for, say, a Saxon or somebody coming from another place and the same in France. BB: In the years prior to Pearl Harbor [05:32], were you in college at this time? Were you in college? AK: Yes, I went to college at night. I graduated, of course, from the regular school system. I started, I think, in the fourth grade and missed all the basic elementary-school [06:00] training, which has been a handicap, but I graduated from high school. But then I decided to work and got a job at the Book of the Month Club, and went to college at night. Unless they paid overtime, then I skipped school. VS: What were you studying? AK: Civil engineering. I was going to major in architecture, but I never finished. Arnold Kohn 3 February 13, 2008 BB: So I interrupted earlier. You mentioned Pearl Harbor [06:42] came. Could you give your own impressions or recollections of Pearl Harbor [06:49] and whether or not America’s entry into the war came as a surprise to you or not? AK: I was working overtime, I believe, at the Book of the [07:00] Month Club, when we heard on the radio, and another fellow there and I decided to enlist immediately. Of course, the war in Europe had been going on, and I didn’t realize that my mother put a stop to my being drafted. She called and said that she couldn’t get along without us, so I got a deferment there. But I fooled her and went down to the recruiting office, as I said, the following Monday, and I think on the 16th of December I was inducted into the service. BB: At that point you went to basic training? AK: Basic training at Fort Bragg [08:00]. BB: That was in artillery? AK: Artillery. After finishing basic training, I was at prep school of some sort that they had at Fort Bragg [08:13]. I went to Fort Sill [08:16], Oklahoma, got a commission, was assigned to 4th Armored Division [08:26] up in New York again, Pine Camp [08:33], I think it was called, and there, while I was at a staff meeting, the colonel there announced that they were calling for volunteers to go overseas immediately to England. So I jumped up, knocked over a Coke bottle, picked [09:00] it up, flustered, and volunteered. [laughter] BB: So, briefly, you said you were commissioned an officer at Fort Sill [09:10]. AK: Fort Sill [9:11]. BB: So you attended OCS [Officer Candidate School] [09:14]? Arnold Kohn 4 February 13, 2008 AK: OCS [09:14], yes. BB: Was that just something that you applied for? Presumably, you were an enlisted man when you were in your initial basic training. AK: Yes. As I said, I worked my way up to major and back down to staff sergeant, to master sergeant. BB: So during your process of being commissioned, did you receive any -- up until this point when you were with the 4th Armored, did you receive any what you would qualify as intelligence training? AK: No, none at all, but [10:00] when I got to England, unfortunately, I got in trouble again. We got there, I think, on a Saturday morning after a long trip by convoy, to Ireland, to Scotland, and down to the Midlands. I suggested to some of my friends that we visit London, and we signed out. It didn’t occur to us to ask for a pass or anything. It was the weekend, so we thought that we had it free. We spent the weekend in London because I had been there before as a child. But when we got back, I found we had missed a levy [11:00] to go back to Ireland as a field auxiliary forward observer, and because the three or four of us were gone, none of us went. Then about a week later, they gave me garrison duty officer of the day, guard officer and all that kind of stuff, and spent a couple of days there in the Midlands, visiting around. The colonel came one day to headquarters, asked for officers who could speak foreign language, and quite a few spoke Italian, three quarters; there were some who spoke German, and maybe one or two spoke French, but I was the only one who professed to speak French and [12:00] German, which I did. I’d studied it in school, four years each, I guess. So he told me to get ready, and my friends in the barracks where we were, threw my stuff into a big sleeping bag and rolled it up, Arnold Kohn 5 February 13, 2008 and five minutes later I was on the way to Cheltenham, the headquarters. I got there. I didn’t have anything but verbal orders, and stayed at this place where I was billeted. I think it was a girls’ school, had been a girls’ school. Somebody came and woke me up at 2:30, 3:00 in the morning, said there was a colonel from London [13:00] to see me. I remember his name because I met him again later, Colonel Coleman [13:08], who said he was the provost marshal in London and I was -- he was going to give me some instructions. He had me carry some chairs to the middle of this large ballroom, a great big place, but we had to sit in the middle, and he insisted on whispering. As soon as he started to talk, I grabbed for my pad and pen, as every officer should, and he said, “Don’t write anything down.” He said, “I want you to get the men, you’ll be sent them, [14:00] starting tomorrow, and go to Liverpool and get on the S1. Don’t ask any questions.” And he took off. The next day -- it was Colonel Spence [14:20] was the officer from this headquarters who had picked me up. STEVEN KLEINMAN: Was he American or British? AK: American. These were all Americans. I started to get some men. I found out that some of them were linguists; one or two had to do with photography; a few of them -- there was one sergeant and a few of the others were typists, so I had a vague idea what it was about. The linguists were [15:00] French, German, and Italian. These fellows came, were told the night before to report, and they came without weapons, without -- some without clothing. One young fellow came from London. He was a tall fellow with a long neck, unfortunately, and all he had was a British helmet, so he really stood out. He was taller than most, with this little pan on top of his head. So I spent that day trying to round up gas masks, ammunition, guns, and so on. Then a day later, I received orders -- I might Arnold Kohn 6 February 13, 2008 still have them -- ordering me [16:00] to Liverpool. Unfortunately, no one told me what an S1 was, so when I got there, I asked around and apparently it was very secret, because for an hour I had no idea what I was supposed to do next. But then some Britisher felt sorry for me, I guess, a dumb second lieutenant and a bunch of hungry men, and they pointed out into the bay, I guess it was, or harbor, and said, “That’s the S1.” It was a ship. He told me that afternoon it was going to dock, so we loaded onto the ship. Since I had the men who had come [17:00], almost all of them were sergeants, specialists and so on, so they gave us some -- gave all the men quarters, cabins, but then the troops came on board under the command of the colonel. I used to remember his name; I’ve forgotten, and he ordered all my men out because we were noncombatants. Well, he knew more than I did. I had no idea what my unit was. No one had told me, and the orders didn’t say anything. So I fussed with him, and later on I went back and complained, and he threatened to put me in the brig if I [18:00] didn’t get out of his office. But I was taking care of my men, as every officer should. Well, we made the convoy. We were gathered up into a convoy, and first the military unit was Combat Command B [18:29] of the Center Task Force, and we went up to Scotland first and had a mock landing on one of the fjords. The idea was to act as if we were going to Norway. If you remember, I think in London they had the officers going around getting cold-weather gloves [19:00] and parkas, and they were told to obviously shop. Then we went up, I think, past Iceland, into the South Atlantic, I think made an approach to Dakar, and then finally at night we went through the Straits of Gibraltar, followed the Spanish coast, as I recall, feigning a landing in southern France, and then that night we went and I guess the group that went to Morocco had peeled off; another section had peeled off to go to Algiers, and we went Arnold Kohn 7 February 13, 2008 as the [20:00] -- we landed in the Bay of Mostaganem. The colonel had told me -- the only thing he had said specifically is, “Meet me at the railroad station in Saint Lou -- at Saint Lou.” I asked him where that was, and he said he couldn’t tell me. So we loaded up. I still had my field glasses, so I could see the beach, and I made a command decision to make the landing barefoot. So on the boat, had the men take off their shoes and tie them around their necks, take off their socks, roll up their trousers, and we [21:00] waded ashore. Then we sat down on a drift log and we watched the combat troops and the tanks charging in, the men with fixed bayonets charging up the dunes, the coastal dunes across the road, and the tanks spreading out. This was the one wing -- can’t think what you call it at the moment -- to encircle Oran. So I was with the 1st Armored Division [21:43], which included -- this was a combat command. It had tanks from the 1st Armored Division [21:54]. It had the troops of two regiments of the 1st Division. It [22:00] had the first rangers who attacked a fort, Fort du Nord, which was at the point of the bay, which they had to climb the cliff. But instead of having to fight anybody, it turned out to be a rest center for retired foreign legionnaires, and they helped some of the troops finish climbing up. So the first rangers didn’t have much to do. VS: So there was really no resistance to speak of at this point? AK: No. Well, the other wing landed at [unintelligible] and then there were some ships who went in directly [23:00], and I believe General -- what was his name? High-ranking general, a member of a family, I think one of the Roosevelts. SK: You’re talking about in Oran? AK: Yes. He was killed by French fire. I think he was in a destroyer. I’m vague on that. There was a fight there, but in our sector, none. Then they had the first paratroopers Arnold Kohn 8 February 13, 2008 coming in. There were two air fields, one just south of Oran and one further back military. The first paratroopers, one battalion dropped in one of the airports [24:00]. The other battalion dropped further off. None of them got there until after the armistice, which was timed to be on November 11th. Everybody, by the way, wore the American flag, including the British. And I believe the -- while the flyers used the Spitfire, they were marked with the American star. On the ship, the last briefing was none of our planes would be below 2,000 feet. This was important later. Well, I spent that night on the beach with the men. Next morning, I went up to the -- there was a little shack and it said “Saint Lou” on it [25:00]. Great. Unfortunately, the colonel wasn’t there. So I spent the day on the beach and figured that I need to make myself useful. Silly. So I found out that there was a prisoner-of-war [25:21] collection point for the 1st Division [25:24] up the road, and in the meantime, the sergeant had gone back to the ship and loaded our stuff. I was slightly embarrassed because my field locker had come along here on the invasion, and the men had their blue barracks bags, but the sergeant was very competent. He located a mule [26:00] and loaded most of the stuff on the back of the mule, with my foot locker up on top. And in good style, because I’d seen a lot of war movies, I split the men up into two sections, one the side of the road and the other on the other, and we went up the road in military style. I saw a sign that said “1st Division [26:28] Collection Point,” POW [26:33] collection point, I think they called it. Went up the road. This was up on the knoll, and it was a walled-in farmhouse, farm yard, rather large. There was a first lieutenant with the 1st Division [26:56] patch. I said, “I’m from the II Corps [27:00].” That’s what one of the orders said, that I had, II Corps. So I said I was from II Corps. He said, “Good. We’ve been waiting for you.” And he whistled for Arnold Kohn 9 February 13, 2008 his men, and they left. So I looked inside, and sure enough, there were a bunch of odd- looking people. So the men went to work taking names on some of the paper we had with us. Three of them were retired legionnaires coming back from leave to go back to Fort du Nord. One was a school teacher who had been out hunting, and when he saw the invasion coming on, he [28:00] climbed a tree and was hauled down and sent to this place. Two were customs officials wearing some kind of uniform from Arzew, which was a little port nearby. Five were native troops. I think they called it a [unintelligible] algerienne [spelled phonetically], the natives. They wore their fatigue cap, which is a red fez. I don’t think -- I don’t believe there was a single really a soldier there. Well, I sent the men up, again going to the movies [29:00] for how to do it, put some of them on the wall. There was a tower, a water tower. The sergeant went down to the beach and found a machine gun. He was very good at finding stuff, one of these scroungers. He sat up on the tower, and the men were in an open shed at the rear of the enclosure. Well, I felt I should do something; I would take the front. The wall was about nine feet high. I got a table and that wasn’t high enough, so I put the bench, a wooden bench, on top of the table, and borrowed a rifle from one of the men [30:00], who held my pistol. He could guard the prisoners. Climbed up and a plane was staring me in the face, flying low. We were up above the beach. Just as I stuck my head up, I could see flashes, and I ducked, and the top of the wall went up in smoke. Another plane came over, but I could just see it pass, and a third. The sergeant was firing the machine gun. We shot -- either he did or an AA outfit nearby -- shot down the last two planes and we could see them go over the hill and crash [31:00]. This was confirmed later when I got to Oran. I bumped into some pilots and one of them casually mentioned that he had been in the first wing, and two of Arnold Kohn 10 February 13, 2008 his buddies had crashed. But these were Spitfires, which were easily recognized, about the only plane I could recognize, but they had the American star, which we didn’t -- I didn’t see until they had passed. VS: If I could just ask for some clarification. These were American planes firing on you, “friendly fire,” if you will? AK: Because of the fatigue hats of these native troops, these black-red [32:00], they thought this was a fortified position. They were in the center of this yard, cooking some of their food, and that’s what I guess the planes -- (End of Tape 1A) (Beginning of Tape 1B) BB: This is just fine. AK: You want war stories. BB: Sure. You can keep on going. We’re all set. AK: Okay. Before I had the men set up to guard the prisoners, where they were, again it’s just like the movies, a motorcycle came up this dirt road, because I was out kind of looking at things, and it came to one of these rolling stops, skidding stops, and said, “There’s going to be an attack, a counterattack in three minutes, from land, sea, and air” [laughs]. And off he went. Real dramatic. And the ships did start firing. I don’t know what they were firing at. I couldn’t tell [01:00]. They were in the bay and we were high enough so we could see the whole bay spread out. Then many of the trucks, which had been going towards Oran, turned around and came back, and there were some others that were going towards the city, further out, Mostaganem. They also turned back, so it did look like there was a counterattack. That’s when the planes came over. Two days later, the