Association for Diplomatic Studies and Training Foreign Affairs Oral History Project AMBASSADOR SHIRLEY ELIZABETH BARNES Interviewed by: Charles Stuart Kennedy Initial interview date: January 16 2004 Copyright 2010 ADST TABLE OF CONTENTS Background Born in Florida, raised in Florida and New York City Life in Sugar Hill Excellence of school system Anita Frazier High Schools Racial issues City College of New York (CCNY); Columbia U.; Boston U. Black Sororities Churches Washington, DC: Delta Sorority; Member and Staff President, Dorothy Height Membership Black Fraternities Crossroads Africa 1958-1960 Africa visit Congo; Ford Foundation; Administrative Assistant 1961-1965 Building schools Environment Reverend Dr. Robinson Hotel Royale Theodore and Anne Harris Operations Role of women Prime Minister Tshombe Security Civil unrest Contacts with US Embassy 1 African American Institute: Women’s African Program 1965-1967 Women’s Leadership Project Connecticut College Marriage Columbia University, MBA in Business Administration 1969-1970 New York, NY: Private Advertising Business 1971-1983 Entered the Foreign Service 1983 State Department; FSI; Training 1983-1984 Cairo, Egypt: General Services Officer (GSO) 1984-1986 Operations Duty-free auto importation Office environment Embassy personnel Local staff Dakar, Senegal: Supervisory General Services Officer 1986-1988 Environment Political environment Government State Department; Office of Management (MMP) 1988 National War College 1989-1990 Comments on students and course of study Strasbourg, France: Consul General 1992-1995 Council of Europe Environment US relations with Council Ambassador Pamela Harriman European Court of Human Rights Yugoslavia breakup 50th Anniversary of end of WWII Northeast France conservatism Immigrant workers Local economy Relations with Embassy Farmers march on Strasbourg East Berlin, Germany: Counselor for Administration 1990-1992 2 Environment Fall of Berlin Wall Closing of East Berlin office Pains of “downsizing” Senior Seminar 1995-1996 Comments on course Content State Department; Director, Office of Western European Affairs 1996-1998 Countries covered Secretary of State Madeleine Albright Focus on France Comments on Albright’s staff Ambassador Pamela Harriman Relations with National Security Council Jon Kornblum Canada Relations with the French Embassy Foreign Embassy official entertainment United Kingdom Bureau of International Organizations (IO) Relations with Congress Traffic of African women Ambassador to Madagascar 1998-2001 Africa-American Institute (AAI) John Waller, former Consul General President Ratsiraka Voting in UN Political environment Ethnic groups Presidential elections Economy Environment African Growth and Opportunity Act Women’s issues French presence Retirement 2001 INTERVIEW [Note: This interview was not edited by Ambassador Barnes] 3 Q: Today is the 16th of January 2004; this is an interview with Shirley Elizabeth Barnes. This is being done on behalf of the Association for Diplomatic Studies and Training, and I’m Charles Stuart Kennedy. You go by Shirley? BARNES: Shirley. Q: Okay, I’ll call you Shirley then and I’ll be Stu. Let’s start at the beginning. When and where were you born? BARNES: I was born on April 5th, 1938 in St. Augustine, Florida. Q: Shirley–you sure it’s not related to Shirley Temple? BARNES: I always asked my parents that when they were alive and they said: “Oh, definitely not.” But I can’t think how that could be true when she was probably the most celebrated person or personality and entertainer at the time. Q: Somehow the name Shirley usually–it almost time-dates somebody. BARNES: Absolutely. Q: I’ve noticed that... BARNES: Yeah, nobody is named Gladys anymore. So I think, although my mother denies that she had anything to do with... but I’m sure that Shirley Temple had some impact on who was named Shirley at that particular time. Q: Oh well, the nice thing about it is Shirley Temple became an ambassador twice over. BARNES: Yes. People loved, and still love her and deep down, they really do. Q: Can you tell me a bit about your parents? First your father then your mother. BARNES: Alright. My father was a waiter on a railroad: The Seaboard Airlines Railroad. He was born in South Carolina and I guess as I look at it now, I’ve gotten some background information. Apparently there were blacks who migrated from South Carolina in to Florida in the slave era. They heard that Florida was free territory if they could get from South Carolina to Florida, apparently. There was kind of a trail set up in Wade*, Florida now where apparently people out of plantations in South Carolina migrated to Florida because they heard that they fought with the Spanish; there was word on the Spanish side that they were retreating. This is all the way back–and I believe that there was a trail that was set up in Wade*, Florida now that became, manifested, from people going along that trail. 4 I have not gotten that from my father but just leading back in history that there was a migratory path of blacks from South Carolina in to Florida. But also I know that he said that was why they weren’t Jamaican. So I have a feeling that it was a combination of people migrating up from the Bahamas from Jamaica and the Caribbean area and people migrating down from South Carolina in some way or another, and my maternal grandfather and my maternal grandmother got together. Because I have heard that he was of Jamaican ancestry. But the people that I know on his side for the most part were people that came from Melbourne, Florida. One of these days, one of my to-do things on my list would be to try and trace some of his roots and know a little more about my grandmother who also from what I understand, came from South Carolina in to Florida. That’s my grandmother. Anyway, my father, I don’t know how he got in to the busboy and waitering type of business, career, or whatever. But I know that he worked in Miami as a busboy and that they followed the trail almost up to Saratoga where they also did waiting and busboying because the rich families would go to Saratoga, I guess, in the summer months and so he also... Q: This is Saratoga, New York? BARNES: Yes. Saratoga, New York. So his confession was, he was a waiter and he was affable, outgoing, waiting, that people would always ask, let Jimmy boy–his name is James Alfred Barnes–I’d like Jimmy to serve my table. And he knew how to be gracious and he needed enough of how to be gracious and he could also hold a decent conversation and be affable at the same time; and knew how to graciously serve and picked up all of the table manners and everything else that the rich had at that point–I mean very comfortably rich, not bourgeois, nouveau riche (new money) type. He would in fact, I remember, tell us how we had to affect the table manners of those kinds of people that he would be serving. We left as a family group from St. Augustine when I was five years old. We migrated to New York City. He was with the Seaboard Airline Railroad and the Silverstine, the Silver Media and they would go from New York to Florida. So although I would hear him talk about his busboy days in Miami or Saratoga, I only knew him, actually seeing him, as a working person when he was waiting tables on the railroad. Later on he would always have another job; later on he got a job as a waiter at Birdland, which was one of the most famous jazz clubs in the world. The used to call it the jazz corner of the world. So my father, his life was spent as a waiter for the most part. He would be out of town four out of seven days as a waiter, I guess, overnight a couple of nights in Miami and come back to New York. Silver Media I think was his favorite train on the Seaboard Airline’s services, and the Silver Star which he also worked on. My mother was a very accomplished person. People like, finished high school at that point when she was born; that was already distinguished. She finished high school and 5 went on to what was called a normal school. Most of those times the schools were churning out teachers. She became a teacher in a segregated school system. Q: Where? BARNES: St. Augustine. As a young woman she was a teacher and this is already a great, big, deal; honored to be a teacher. Q: Oh yes. BARNES: So she was a very accomplished pianist, both classical and she would play ragtime. She was an accomplished musician. She played as the organist for her church when she was still very young in St. Augustine. She was an excellent dressmaker; could crochet, knit. I mean she was just quite accomplished. I remember by the time I was going to high school in New York City and doing very, very, difficult, at that point, difficult mathematical problems she would sit down and speak–we’d sit up all night sometimes– figuring out some math problems for me. She had that kind of curiosity, a very, very, bright woman. As I look back on it, I don’t know how she was able to do all that she did because not only was she bright and accomplished in doing things in the community and clean but she took care of that house too. I think of younger women today and they would–I know I would not–be able to do or even fathom, or think of doing the kind of things that she was able to accomplish both in her being able to do these things on the outside and also inside as working in her household. So we left St. Augustine when I was five. I had an older sister and at that point I had one younger brother. The other brother was born in New York City. I guess his most distinctive thing in our family was that he was the only one of us that was born in New York City. I think he could say that he was a true New Yorker. But I consider myself a New Yorker and still have my sister–my two brothers died, they might seem younger but– my sister is my immediate family that is still in New York and I still go to New York as often as I can as a diversion. One of the reasons I’m not there now when I’ve retired was because the prices of the apartments had gone up so tremendously. Where I used to live was just a great, handsome, wonderful building on Central Park West. I had to sell my apartment when my co-op board told me I could not sublet anymore and I’d have to leave it empty and at that point I was in the Foreign Service. I had the apartment before I was in the Foreign Service. So we went from St. Augustine up to New York City and lived in what was in the Harlem-Renaissance period called “Sugar Hill.” Q: From your parents or grandparents, were you getting any reflection of what life was like to be an African American in St. Augustine, Florida? I mean, really before you were on the scene. BARNES: I would say, not nearly. I knew that there were colored schools and that’s 6 where my mother taught. We lived in an all-black community. My grandmother–we lived with my grandmother–she was a domestic that worked for two white women, the Pessetes. And she would come home as a youngster, so it must have been when I could listen to conversations and understand. She and my aunt and my mother, she would come home and talk about the Pessetes and what happened with Lucy and I forgot the other one, and I’d listen in on the conversations. I was still young enough so that when they wanted us not to understand what was going on they’d spell out the words so we didn’t understand. And their gentleman friend–they wouldn’t say–they’d say “G-E-N-T-L-E-M- A-N friend” and I’d be listening. She’d come home with what was going on with Lucy and the other Pessetes so I knew that she worked for white people but it didn’t register with me of what that was. I only got a perception of what was different in all of that. I would say going in to the late ‘50s and ‘60s when the Civil Rights Movement and African Independence was going and etc. We knew that by the time I got to New York when I was in junior high or something, we knew that there was a difference in race and all that. But we had our own community and we’d talk about white and black issues but it was not so much on a political basis until the late ‘50s and early ‘60s. Q: When you went to New York, what was Sugar Hill like? BARNES: It was great. Without my really knowing that at the point it was a safe community to live in and it was considered one of the swellest places for blacks to be living on Sugar Hill at that time. It was very curiously interesting when you reflect on what today is like and what people did back then, whether you were a waiter on the railroad, or Joe Luis or Lena Horne, we all lived in that community. It was considered to be ... we sort of made it to be, the way the Jeffersons did. You know, you saw “Moving On Up?” And if you could live on Sugar Hill that was very significant. We lived on St. Nicholas place and there was St. Nicholas Avenue and Convent Avenue and all around there, as whites were moving out of the area blacks were moving in. And although it was a fifth floor walkup and we lived on the fourth floor, it was considered quite something to be living on Sugar Hill. Edgecomb Avenue–555 Edgecomb was really in Harlem. I think Joe Lewis lived around at 409. It was a whole cross section of blacks who were moving up–lived in that area. So we grew up on Sugar Hill, as I said, not specifically recognizing what we were, but as you grew up people would say: “Oh you live on the Hill.” That’s what it was called, The Hill, and if they lived down The Valley–there was a real distinctive difference. It became noticeable to me and I was happy to be on that side, where The Hill was. So we grew up on St. Nicholas place and that area called “Sugar Hill.” Q: Correct me if I’m wrong but, being a waiter on the railroad was a significant and prestigious job? BARNES: Absolutely. Q: In major, almost political organizations in the black community were Pullman porters. 7 BARNES: Pullman porters, yes, A. Philip Randolph. Q: Randolph and a lot of ... BARNES: It was a very good job. That and being a postman. Q: These two particularly ... Randolph was quite a political figure. BARNES: And the Pullman Porters and the waiters, this was very significant. And to finally achieve that ... As I look back and as we’re talking, I think what happened was that my father had finally landed a job as a waiter on the Seaboard Airline Railroad. Before that he was a waiter around in St. Augustine and Miami. But he landed his job as a waiter and the terminus at that point was New York City for the Seaboard Airline coming back and forth. When white, really rich families would go down the Florida for the winter that was one of the best jobs. The tips were absolutely fantastic. You put your children through college on that kind of thing. So yes, it was considered a very good, very good job. As I said before, my mother had been a teacher in the college school system in St. Augustine so by the time in New York my father had this job as a waiter on a railroad. She became a home maker. He had his job on the railroad and this was the economic basis on which we lived for a long time. I respected waiters for the rest of my life because my father–that was his living–and respected also the tips and always remembered to tip a waiter a nice, generous tip because those tips got us through school. It put food on the table, etc. Q: How about being six years old and growing up a kid in New York? Where did you go to school, what was it like? What did you do? BARNES: I loved school. School at that point: the school system, the teachers were white, and in our community it was transitional. But, by the time I was in, I went to kindergarten and I loved school. I still love it today. I loved the teachers and always wanted to know more about their personal life and what they were doing and I loved learning and school was a treat for me to be able to get up everyday and go to school. We would walk to school. There was no such thing as a school bus. The elementary school was oh, maybe, ten blocks. Q: What was the name of the–what number? BARNES: PS-46 which is no longer there. Public School 46. I went from kindergarten through the sixth grade at PS-46 and my sister went there, then I went there and my brothers went to PS-46. It was still there when all of us were growing up. It was a real treat to line downstairs in the morning, four flights. I think I can remember how many flights, each landing was seven steps, run down and your friends would, you know–you sort of had a routine–they’d pick you up. They lived a few buildings down and you’d go on your tour and you’d pick up the next bunch and you’d walk to school and no matter 8 what the weather. There was no such thing as having your mom or anybody in a car. You walked to school and you walked home and there was no such thing as snow days and if it looked like it was going to snow, there’s no such thing as keeping your kids home. There were no such things as snow days, or weather days, whatever they call it here in Washington. Rain, snow, sleet, you were out there. I would say that 99% of the people walking and going to the school with you, very few were missing and it was a lot of fun too. You’d talk about mainly the teachers and how much you hated everything, but it was so much fun socializing and gathering as you walked to school. Also, you learned something in the New York City school system at that point. We were learning. My mother was very good at helping with homework and all that. My father didn’t participate in that too much. I think my father probably had no more than about a sixth grade education. But my mother helped out and she would be there for all the school events. She would make costumes if you were going to be in a play; she’d help to make the costumes. I remember something where I was supposed to be the sunshine in something and she made this fantastic thing out of crepe paper. I had to study my lines and stand up there and the snowman melted as I came in and melted the snow, ran away, and I think he was a grumpy guy too so everybody was happy. She would be there for the plays, etc. Later on we had to take piano lessons. I remember when we got our piano as I went back to that apartment once many, many years ago after we had left and it looked so tiny. But I remember when we got our piano. When you got a piano and you lived up on the fourth floor, they pulled it in through the window. It was a pulley and it was an upright piano and we had to take piano lessons, my sister and I. So I remembered those things. Everybody in the building where the kids were, I think, everybody had a piano and you learned to play the piano. Q: What did the boys do? You were getting a girl’s education in a way. Your mother was there making sure when you did your homework and you learned the piano and all that. How about the boys? Around Sugar Hill? BARNES: Well, when I was growing up the boys mainly they were out in the street. Besides giving the girls a hard time–young girls–they were playing stick-ball: That was a broom handle, and you would get what was called a Spaldeen, a rubber ball, and you’d hit it and some of those guys were so good they could hit it for one block all the way down to the next block! At one point in the early ‘50s when Willie Mays first came up to join the Giants–I’m trying to think of their stadium which was right on 155th Street and we lived on 152nd Street–when he came up to play with the Giants, it was so interesting as I look back on it. They said we don’t want this young man to be completely subverted by the sins of New York City. They decided to have him stay in a room–a woman was renting rooms and they had large apartments as we went up St. Nicholas place–a very nice building, I think even with an elevator. She had a room where Willie Mays stayed and so he would get out in the street and play stick-ball with the kids right on St. Nicholas place. Q: How wonderful. 9 BARNES: We’d say: “Oh Willie’s in town!” and Willie Mays would be there and he was having as much fun as the kids. He could hit that ball and all those young kids could too. I will remember and I’m sure you can look back on what the Giants’ home stadium was called. I’ll think of it. Brooklyn was Ebbets Field but the Giants; we’d walk right across what we called the viaduct and he’d be at Yankee Stadium which is still there. But today the Giants’ home team field is a housing project. Q: Well now, try to capture the period ... I talked to people for example, Jewish kids growing up in New York in about this period and they said dependent on what block you were in, there were certain blocks they couldn’t go because there might be Irish or Italian kids there and so you had to take a special route around. Did you run across any of that? BARNES: Well I do remember when we first came up. I guess maybe by that time I was seven or eight, I don’t think it was when I was five. You’d see the streets completely, all of a sudden, empty and people would rush up to their apartments and it was because one gang–you’d hear by word of mouth–was going to come and have a rumble on the streets or something with another gang from another section. It was all no more than a radius of about 20 blocks or so. We’d call them the “bad boys” and they would be coming in to this particular territory. Quite frankly I never saw one gang fight but it was always “oh they’re coming!” So people would literally clear the streets. But in our neighborhood, the thing I remember, I guess the boys for the most part for certain blocks they didn’t bother to go in to. But for the girls it was unknown territory to explore in terms of getting a boyfriend and someone to hang out with from another neighborhood. Through your school contacts you’d go another block or ten blocks away because you had a school contact and you’d say: “hey come by my house.” So I remember maybe four girls or five girls who did want to go over to such and such’s house or apartment, really, and hang out for those days and listen to music and learn the dances, etc. The boys were sort of silent but for the most part I remember just being a young girl at that point, maybe by that time age ten to junior high school in that area. But we would love to, as a group, walk a few blocks over to sort of strange territory. The fellows for the most part, they were more territorial. Their thing would be to kind of work on neutral territory, might be the playground and the basketball court. So the fellows would work out a lot of what might be a tendentious situation by being on the basketball court or as I said, they’d be out and one block might come over to play a game of stick- ball with another block. So that’s how they worked out some of their problems. The girls for the most part it was through your new found friends at school. You’d walk and get in to another neighborhood or you’d meet up when you’re shopping. At that point it was over on Broadway where a lot of the stores were and you’d see a new pair of “ballerina shoes” and someone would come in with them, and you’d have to have the same shoes. A.S. Beck was one of the stores as we called “AS-Beck” and we’d go there to buy shoes and you’d meet up with your girlfriends who lived on different blocks. The other thing was the movies. Saturday was movie time. These kids spent the whole 10