Alexandra Mouche Jashvantrai Pranlal Pandya Interview 3/22/12 Mehgal River Basin Oral History Project Interview Transcript Interviewers: Alexandra Mouche and Dakshesh Gajjar Narrator: Jashvantrai Pranlal Pandya Interview Dates: March 22nd, 2012 Place: Ajab Village, Junagadh, Saurashtra, Gujarat, India Program: Fulbright-Nehru Grant 2011-2012 Date completed: July 15th, 2012 Alexandra Mouche Jashvantrai Pranlal Pandya Interview 3/22/12 March 22nd, 2012 Persons Present: Alexandra Mouche’ (interviewer) Dakshesh Gajjar (research assistant/interviewer) Jashvantrai Pranlal Pandya (Narrator) (Dakshesh) Ëûkuþ : ík{kÁt Lkk{ Lku çkÄwt fuòu? Please say your name and everything she is asking (Allie) yu÷e : ík{kÁt Lkk{ þwt Au? What is your name? (Jasu Bapa) sMkw çkkÃkk : sþðtLíkhkE «ký÷k÷ Ãktzâk Jashvantrai Pranlal Pandya (A) yu÷e : ík{khku sL{ õÞkt? Where were you born? (J) sMkw çkkÃkk : 22-01-1938 22-01-1938 (A) yu÷e : yLku õÞkhu ÚkÞku? And when were you born? (J) sMkw çkkÃkk : sL{ MÚk¤ Lku ? Birthplace? (D)Ëûkuþ : nk Alexandra Mouche Jashvantrai Pranlal Pandya Interview 3/22/12 Yes (J) sMkw çkkÃkk : ¼kÞkðËh Bhayavadar (A) yu÷e : ykufuÞ Þk ykufuÞ õÞk õÞkhuÞ ÚkÞku? Ok, yeah, ok, where and when? (D) Ëûkuþ : ík{u fux÷e ÃkuZe Úke ynª Þk hnku Aku ? How many generations have stayed here? (J) sMkw çkkÃkk : yÞk? y{u ½ýe ÃkuZe Úke hneyu Aeyu {khk VkÄh níkk Lku yu Lkkifhe fhíkk hkExh níkk Lkðkçk Lkk, Lkðkçke ð¾ík Lkk y{u íÞkt hnuíkk Lkðkçke økk{, íkku y{khe ynªÞk A Mkkík ÃkuZe Mkkík ykX ÃkuZe Úke ynªÞk hnu Au yk økk{ ðiMkw Þk Úke xwtf{kt. Here?  Many generations have stayed here. My father's job was writing for the King back in the time of the kingdoms, so we stayed in the King's village. 6, 7 generations, 7-8 generations stayed here in this village. In short, from when this village was founded. (D) Ëûkuþ : Lku LkkLkÃký Lke fkuE ðMíkw ík{Lku ÞkË nkuÞ What do you remember from your childhood? (J) sMkw çkkÃkk : fu{ LkkLkÃký Lke? Why  childhood? Alexandra Mouche Jashvantrai Pranlal Pandya Interview 3/22/12 (D) Ëûkuþ : LkkLkÃký fkuE yuðe ðMíkw fhe nkuÞ fu su ík{Lku ÞkË nkuÞ yíÞkhu ? Just what you remember from when you were young. (J) sMkw çkkÃkk : LkkLkÃký {k íkku y{u ¼ýíkk Lku íÞkhu ynªÞk yk÷eÄúk {k çkúñ[khe çkkÃkw Au yu ÄwLk [÷kðíkk y{u ykÞk yuf ykuxku níkku {ehkS Lkku fuðkíkku Þk fkÞ{ Mkktsu ÄwLk çkku÷ðk òíkk fk÷kf çku fk÷kf nhu hk{ nhu r¢§k Lke ÄwLk çkku÷íkk yLku Akufhk çkÄkÞ ¼uøkk ÚkkÞ Lku çkÄkÞ ¼uøkk ÚkELku... çkkfe íkku ËeðMku ¼ýðk òÞ Lku Úkkuzwf h{ðkLkw nkuÞ økheÞk Úke h{íkk øke÷e ztzku yuðe çkÄe h{íkku níke swLke h{íkku. In my childhood we would study and go to Bramhachari Bapu's place in Alidhra village to sing songs. At what is called Miraji's Oto, in the evening everyday, all the children would go together to sing songs like 'hari rama, hari krishna' for 1-2 hours and otherwise in the daytime we would go to study and play with tops and gili dandya (a game with sticks). (D) Ëûkuþ : ík{khk ÷øLk õÞkhu ÚkÞk? When was your wedding? (J) sMkw çkkÃkk : ÷øLk ÚkÞk 1964 My wedding  was in  1964. (D) Ëûkuþ : 1964 Alexandra Mouche Jashvantrai Pranlal Pandya Interview 3/22/12 1964. (J) sMkw çkkÃkk : 24, {u, 1964 24th, May 1964 (D) Ëûkuþ : yLku çkk¤fku ? And children? (J) sMkw çkkÃkk : yuf Ëefhku yLku yuf Ëefhe One boy and one girl. (D) Ëûkuþ : yLku ík{u fux÷ku yÇÞkMk fhu÷ku ? And  how  many  years  of study have you completed? (J) sMkw çkkÃkk : nwt yÇÞkMk íkku Mkkík Ãký Ãku÷k su{ ykÃkýu yuMk.yuMk.Mke. fuðkÞ Lku yu{ þkýkË fuðkíke þkýkË Ãkheûkk fuðkíke økwshkík{kt yu þkýkË su ykÃku Lku ÃkkMk ÚkkÞ yuLku Lkkifhe {zíke þeûkf {kt þkýkË ÃkkMk Awt. I  passed  the  7th standard  exam,  but  now  it's  called SSC and in that time it was called the Shanand. The Shanand exam. In Gujarat there was the Shanand exam and when people passed the exam they could get a job teaching. I passed the Shanand exam. (D) Ëûkuþ : Lku ík{u ¾uíke fuðe heíku þeÏÞk ? And how did you learn farming? (J) sMkw çkkÃkk : ¾uíke LkÚke {khe ÃkkMku. Alexandra Mouche Jashvantrai Pranlal Pandya Interview 3/22/12 I am not a farmer. (D) Ëûkuþ : ¾uíke LkÚke. You are not a farmer. (A) yu÷e : yku y...þe...þe...þeûkf He is…a teacher. (J) sMkw çkkÃkk : çkúkBný... xe[h Brahmin…teacher. (D) Ëûkuþ : íkku sMkw çkkÃkk ykÃkýu ík{u õÞkhÚke ¼ýkðkLkw õÞkhÚke Au? õÞkhÚke ¼ýkðku Aku ? So  Jasu Bappa, when did you start teaching? (J) sMkw çkkÃkk : 1959 Úke From 1959 (D) Ëûkuþ : 1959.. Lku yíÞkh MkwÄe {k fuðk fuðk ... yt{ fkE çkË÷kð ykÞðk E su ykÃkýu ¼ýíkh {k Lku..... 1959..and  from  that time until now what changes have you seen in the teaching? (J) sMkw çkkÃkk : Ãku÷k fhíkk ½ýku çkË÷kð ykÞðku Ãku÷k þeûký ík{khe ÿüe yu yxkýu ÚkÞw nkuÞ Ãký y{khe ÿüe yu Mkkhwt níkw þeûký {k þwt..., yu{k EríknkMk Au, ¼k»kk Au, neLËe nk÷íke Ãkkt[ Äkuhý Úke neLËe nk÷íke, ytøkúuS Mkkík{kt Úke nk÷íke, nt yu{ Alexandra Mouche Jashvantrai Pranlal Pandya Interview 3/22/12 çkÄw Mkkhw þeûký níkwt. ytf þeûký níkk su{k Mkhðk¤k, çkkËçkkfe, økwýkfkh, ¼ktøkkfkh (ÃkíkeÞk¤ku) Lku yuðk çkÄkÞ ykðíkk Ëk¾÷k. Many changes have happened. In your view the changes from the past are for the better, but in our view the past was better. In the past, the subjects of history, language, Hindi, began in 5th standard and English began in the 7th standard. It was a good education. Arithmetic, doing sums like addition, subtraction, multiplication and division, multiplications of fractions and these kind of sums. (D) Ëûkuþ : Lku ykÃkýu økk{ {kt Mfw÷ fux÷e Au ykÞk ? How  many  schools  are  in  this  village? (J) sMkw çkkÃkk : ykÞk yíÞkhu? yíÞkhu Mfw÷ çku Mkhfkhe ºký «kEðux Right  here,  right  now?  Now  there  are  two  government  schools and three private schools (D) Ëûkuþ : yLku íÞkhu Ãku÷k ? And in the past? (J) sMkw çkkÃkk : íÞkhu çku s níke Mkhfkhe. Only  two  government. (D) Ëûkuþ : çku s níke Mkhfkhe. Only  two  government. Alexandra Mouche Jashvantrai Pranlal Pandya Interview 3/22/12 (J) sMkw çkkÃkk : fw{kh þk¤k Lku fLÞk þk¤k, A boys school and a girls school. (D) Ëûkuþ : ík{u fkuE MktMÚkk MkkÚku òuzkÞu÷k Aku ? What  connections  and  organizations  are  you  involved  in? (J) sMkw çkkÃkk : nwt ? Me (D) Ëûkuþ : nk. Yes. (J) sMkw çkkÃkk : nk {Lku ÏÞk÷ ykðe økÞku {kLkð Mkuðk MknkÞ (MkðoÄLk) xÙMx y{u s÷ ¢ktíke {k fk{ fheyu Aeyu. Yes, I  understand there is the Manna Seva Sahai Trust and we are working with Jal Kranti (D) Ëûkuþ : yLku ík{u õÞk Ä{oMkkÚku Mktf¤kÞu÷k Aku? And  what  is  your  religion? (J) sMkw çkkÃkk : õÞk? What? (D) Ëûkuþ : fÞk Ä{o ík{khku? What is your religion? (J) sMkw çkkÃkk : y{khku Ä{o nªLËw Ä{o. Our religion is Hindu. Alexandra Mouche Jashvantrai Pranlal Pandya Interview 3/22/12 (D) Ëûkuþ : yLku ík{Lku fkuE þku¾ ¾he ? And what hobbies do you have? (J) sMkw çkkÃkk : {kLkð MkuðkLkwt fk{. yksw çkksw yòçk, þuhøkZ, «kMk÷e, yk{¤k, hkòðz {k òíkku Ãku÷k nðu [÷kíkw LkÚke çku ðhMk ÚÞk íke..... [k÷eLku òíkku. Þk òÞu yuf Xufkýu çkuXe yu Þk ÃkAe økw{zk nkuÞ fkuE Lku ¼kXk nkuÞ íkku yu MkkV fhw {÷{ ÷økkðw Ãkkzk ðkhe Ëô. fkuE Mkk{kLÞ fkLk Lke ykt¾Lke íkf÷eV nkuÞ íkku xeÃkk ykÃkeyu yuðwt çkÄw 1973 Úke {kxu 38 ð»ko ÚkÞk. I do good works for people. Here and there like [the villages of] Ajab, Shergardh, Prasli, Amalia, Rajavad. In the past I helped people from these villages, but now I'm having problems walking, so I don't go anymore. We went to these villages and sat in one place and helped people with boils and other skin diseases by cleaning their skin, putting on salve, and bandaging it. For typical problems with the ears and eyes I would give people drops. I had been doing this work since 1973. (D) Ëûkuþ : y nt... ík{u {u½÷ LkËe rðþu þwt rð[khku Aku ? What do you think about the Meghal River? (J) sMkw çkkÃkk : {u½÷ LkËe Sðtík Úkkrð skuÞu yu™kÚke ¾uzwíkku ™u ÷k¼ ÚkkÞ yu{ Au økk{zk {k shwhe Au. nðu çkMk 9 ð»ko ÚkÞ økÞk yk ËMk yuf ð»ko {k yk Au÷w ð»ko Au ËMk ð»ko {k fhðk Lkw níkwt nS {u½÷ Sðtík ÚkE LkÚke. Alexandra Mouche Jashvantrai Pranlal Pandya Interview 3/22/12 (cid:0) The Meghal River is life itself (lit must be life). By its existence, the farmer is able to benefit and it is also necessary for the villages. It has been 9 years, and this is the last year of the oath to revive the Meghal River in ten years. But it is still not revived. (D) Ëûkuþ : Lku ík{u LkkLkk níkk íÞkhu fuðe níke {u½÷ LkËe? When you were little what was the Meghal River like? (J) sMkw çkkÃkk : {u½÷ LkËe íÞkhu íkku Ãkkýe níkw. y{u... {khk.. LkkLkk níkk íÞkhu {khk fkfk... {khk çkkÃkwS Lkk fkfk níkk yu ykÞk níkk {kíkhðkýeÞk ðiË níkk yLku rþûkf níkk íÞkhu çkkhu {kMk Ãkkýe ðuníkw {u½÷ LkËe {k çkkhu {kMk Lkðk swLkw Ãkkýe ¼uøkw Úkkíkwt yk ðkík fhw Aw 1953-1954-1955 Lke 1953-1954-1955 {k yu íÞk hnuíkk y{u íÞk òíkk Lku y{u E Lku y{u Þk Lkníkk Lku {u½÷ {k çkkhu {kMk Ãkkýe ðuníkw nðu LkÚke ðuníkw íÞkhu zu{uÞ Lkkuníkk yux÷k íkkuÞ çkkhu {kMk {u½÷ [k÷w hnuíke. There  was  water  in  the  Meghal  River.  When  I  was  little my uncle, my father's uncle, lived in Matervaniya and was a physician and teacher. At that time, 12 months of the year, the water flowed. Now it's not flowing but at that time there were not so many dams as now and the river flowed. (D) Ëûkuþ : yLku Ãkkýe fux÷w {níðLkwt Au ík{khk {kxu ? How important is water to you?