!SATC© journal Pennsylvania Area Token Collectors Organization Volume 22 - Issue 1 In this issue: “eBay Scavengers” by eBay’s captainrich “Tuff Stuff’ by Larry Dziubek “Peterson’s Pennsylvania Mavericks Listing” ... Final Installment (Who has this rare hijacked transportation token?) PATCO DUES: Regular membership (Adult) $5.00; Associate (No journal) $3.00; Junior (Under 18) $3.00; Lifetime $100.00. ADVERTISING RATES: Full Page is $12; Half Page is $7.00; Quarter Page is $4.50; Eighth Page is $2.25. -All checks for dues and advertising must be made payable to: PATCO- Applications for membership, information on dues, and the payment of dues should be directed to: Secretary-Treasurer Jim Hartman, P.O. Box 1702, Beaver Falls, PA 15010 All paid ads should be “Camera Ready” (designed and laid out by you) for publication in order to avoid additional charges, and should be sent to: Editor Rich Bottles Jr., 1620 Crestmont Circle, Fairmont, WV 26554 eBay Scavengers by “captainrich” There was an interesting article by a PATCO member in last month’s Talkin’ Tokens, expressing frustration over eBay sellers who close auctions early in order to accept outside offers. It’s becoming a serious problem on eBay, mainly because it works so well for shady buyers who want to avoid competition and add rare tokens to their collections by paying well below market value. Sometimes the sellers don’t even bother to close the auctions early. Some are willing to accept post-auction offers from scavengers right up until the moment they send the item off to the legitimate winner. My first experience with this happened a few years ago when I won a rare dairy token from Uniontown, Pa. I usually don’t collect tokens from Uniontown, but I won this particular piece at a reasonable price and expected to use it as a trader. Thus, I sent a check to the seller and waited for my token to arrive... and waited for my token to arrive...and waited for my token to arrive...and waited for my token to arrive... After a month or so, I began sending numerous emails to the seller, but got no response. I also tried using the phone number that the seller listed with eBay, but the person who answered said I had a wrong number. However, one thing I did have was the address where I sent my check. One day, I had other business in the Uniontown area and decided to look up the address where my un-cashed check was delivered. I remember it was pouring down rain and was just starting to get dark when I found the correct street address. The front lawn and porch were covered in pseudo antiquities, which the owner must have believed to be attractive lawn ornaments and exquisite outer home decor. I knocked on the door and waited. ..and waited...and waited... and waited... Finally the door opened just a crack and a small woman squeaked, “What do you want?” I politely answered that I had won a dairy token on eBay and had sent a check to this address. I explained that I just happened to be in the neighborhood that day and thought I would pick up the token. The woman stuttered that the check had yet to clear the bank, but that she would send the token as soon as it cleared. I asked her how long she thought that might be, since I’d already been waiting about two months. She then closed the door after crying, “You’re beginning to frighten me.” Of course, it should go without saying that my check was never cashed, I never received the token, and “jynkpicker” quit eBay after getting negative feedback from me. -continued- A similar incident almost occurred with another rare Pennsylvania dairy token, but this time the seller wasn’t so secretive about the pre-bidder’s contact. First some background: When you sell something on eBay, potential bidders are allowed to contact you via the website in order to ask questions about your item. As a seller, eBay gives you the choice of posting the question (along with your answer) on the auction page, in case other potential bidders have the same question. Usually these questions are about shipping costs or die condition of an item, but a seller named “asapthatsme” (a sap, that’s me?) didn’t think anything was out of the ordinary when an eBay member contacted her in order to buy an unlisted Beaver Falls dairy token outside of the auction. The sappy seller actually posted the guy’s illicit solicitation on the auction page for everyone to see! Here’s the actual question that was posted in the question and answer section of the auction page: “Q: Hi - Thanks for the nice listing! Would you be interested in selling the token outright and ending the auction early? If so- what would you like for it? If not - no harm done. I’ll be watching it and bidding later. Thanks again for such a nice listing! Kind regards- Mike.” That auction closed normally, but that’s not the case with many rare exonumia auctions on eBay. I collect Allegheny County transportation tokens and US Department of Justice Internment Camp tokens; and during the past several years I have witnessed previously unknown varieties disappear off the face of the earth after an auction was closed prematurely. In October of 2003, a seller named “harjacl” posted an unlisted West Elizabeth Bridge token featuring a 12-cent fare covering the passage of “ONE HORSE OR MULE.” The auction would have realized hundreds of dollars, but it was ended early by the seller with the explanation that the token was no longer available. Unfortunately, only one side of the token was pictured in the auction, so now the American Vecturist Association doesn’t even have a complete description of the variety to add to its cataloging effort. More recently, a previously unlisted $1 denomination of the Crystal City, Texas, Dept, of Justice Internee Canteen token was listed on eBay and then abruptly removed by a seller named “RB42.” I collect DOJ tokens for a specific reason (which I can’t go into in this forum) and I would have bid very highly for this piece. When I contacted the seller after he closed the auction, he admitted, “I made a mistake and sold the token based on some bad information I received from what I thought was a knowledgeable source... I did get about $100 for it. From a few emails that I received since, I think it may have gone for a bit more.” Duh! These rare, perhaps one-of-a-kind, tokens will eventually resurface on the market and I have a feeling no one will be surprised when they see who is offering them. In conclusion, when will the eBay corporation learn that it is losing listing fees and commission fees when it allows buyers and sellers to conduct business outside of its site? It’s basically providing free advertising to these sellers. The practice is also causing more and more legitimate eBayers to give up on the auction site in frustration. So let’s continue to report impotent sellers who rush to premature adjudication on behalf of overzealous buyers! Even if you think eBay is not listening, it’s important to continue reporting these incidents for the good of the eBay community! Peterson’s Pennsylvania Maverick listing PAGE 15 WILLOW GROVE, PENNSYLVANIA A 24 R(ALSO B) WILLOW GROVE DAIRY T006444 WILLOW / GROVE / DAIRY GOOD FOR /1 / QUART / MILK YORK, PENNSYLVANIA A 22.5 R CULBERTSON CIGAR STORE T003929 CULBERTSON / CIGAR STORE / PHILA. / & HARTLEY STS/ WILMINGTON, DELAWARE WEST CHESTER, GOOD FOR / 5C / IN TRADE PENNSYLVANIA A 21 SQ BRANDYWINE PHARMACY T012288 BRANDYWINE / AT THE SIGN ON / THE CORNER / PHARMACY YORK, PENNSYLVANIA GOOD FOR / 5 / IN TRADE ETTER, R.W. B 24 R R. W. ETTER / SUNSHINE / CIGAR STORE NA00964 GOOD FOR / 5C / IN TRADE A 20 R WINDSOR, PENNSYLVANIA TO10248 GEMMLL BROS. MADE ONLY / BY / GEMMILL / BROS. YORK, PENNSYLVANIA GOOD FOR / ONE / PALACE BAR / 5C / CIGAR FRANK'S PLACE B 21 R FRANK'S PLACE / ICE CREAM / CANDIES / TO 10235 CIGARS & / TOBACCO / PRINCESS & GREEN STS. GOOD FOR/ 5 / IN TRADE WRIGHTSVTLLE, PENNSYLVANIA B 21 SQ HEILAND & FEREE REITER POOL / & / CIGARS / HEILAND & FEREE GOOD FOR / 5C / IN TRADE YORK, PENNSYLVANIA A 21 8 GOOD LUCK CIGAR STORE T011714 GOOD LUCK / CIGAR / STORE COR. / NEWBERRY / & PHILA. STS. WYALUSING, PENNSYLVANIA 5 WYALUSING HOTEL A 22 8 HOTEL / 746-1204 / WYALUSING T005420 5 C (ALSO 10C) PWE 29 R / PBE 29 R YORK, PENNSYLVANIA BAWDEN247 GRANNY’S ICE CREAM PARLOR GRANNY'S / (PORTRAIT) / ICE CREAM PARLOR - YORK, PENNSYLVANIA FUN CENTER 737 FAMILY AMUSEMENT / (PIN BALL GAME) / 737 / GOOD FOR / 5C / IN TRADE TOKEN BBC-08 (CATALOG# 5832) B 23 R A 25 R TO 11264 T006212 TAMS 17-3 YORK. PENNSYLVANIA YORK, PENNSYLVANIA HOWDY PAL SUPPER CLUB 9TH WARD HOWDY PAL SUPPER CLUB / 5 9TH WARD / 1970 / R.S.C. INGLE GOOD FOR / 5C / IN TRADE COPPER 19 R A 22 R T005448 T009114 YORK, PENNSYLVANIA YORK. PENNSYLVANIA L D. C. 12TH WARD B. P. O. E. 0213 12TH / WARD / L D. C. NO. / 213 / Y (ELKS LODGE) GOOD FOR / 5 C / IN TRADE (ALSO $100, 5 PETERSON) A 26X18 OVAL A 21 R / B 25 8S (A002999) / B 34 4S T004056 T014991 M00563 A002240 A002999 YORK, PENNSYLVANIA CENTRE SQUARE CIGAR STORE CENTRE SQUARE / CIGAR / STORE GOOD FOR / 5C / CIGAR Peterson’s Pennsylvania Maverick listing PAGE 16 YORK, PENNSYLVANIA MELHONR'S CIGARS & TOBACCO MELHORN’S / FRANKLIN / & / PHILADELPIA / STS. / CIGARS & TOBACCO (C/S J W) GOOD FOR / £ 25 0 / IN TRADE A 22 8 NA00229 TO 14860 YORK, PENNSYLVANIA MILLER, U.G. GOOD FOR / 5C / IN TRADE / U. G. MILLER 5 B 21 R A000790A YORK, PENNSYLVANIA OTT, J.C. J. C. OTT (DAIRY TOPICAL) GOOD FOR / 2 C / IN / RETURN OF BOTTLE A 22 R REITER YORK, PENNSYLVANIA PAULES, L.M. LINCOLN / PARK / DAIRY / L. M. PAULES GOOD FOR / 5 C / WHEN RETURNED / WITH / BOTTLE A 20 R REITER YORK, PENNSYLVANIA STEINOUR'S STEINOUR'S (NEED INFORMATION) BBC-11 (CATALOG# 5708) A25R RULAU90S TAMS17-3 YORK, PENNSYLVANIA STEINOUR'S CIGAR STORE STEINOUR'S / CIGAR STORE / BARBER SHOP GOOD FOR / 25C / IN TRADE B 25 SQ T008617 YORK, PENNSYLVANIA YE SMOKE SHOP YE / SMOKE / SHOP 5 B 25 SQ-NOTCH T006558 YOUNGWOOD. PENNSYLVANIA YOUNGWOOD DAIRY (SMALL HOLE ADDED) REFUND ONLY / WITH A / YOUNGWOOD / DAIRY / MILK BOTTLE GOOD FOR / 5 C / WITH REFUND B 24 R REITER TUFF STUFF A heretofore unknown token was discovered this past year by a metal detectorist in Ohio. It is Similar to many of fheTanklng andTinanclal advertising store cards of the first quarter of the tw entieth century. The token reads: LOAN SOCIETY OF PITTSBURGH 7 411/4™ AVE / LOWEST RATES / IN THE CITY// Present This At Our Office / And Get A / SlO.oo Loan / Without Interest / For 30 Days / Loans On / Diamonds, Watches,7Tewelry,TTc. Tills address would situate fheTusinessm the area of the “Wall Street of Pittsburgh”. There actually was a stock exchange building iqTheTOO block oTFourth Avenue. TlanyInsurance, legal, andTanklng offices were in that vicinity. There also were many loan companies housed within a very few blocks of this focal point.Wliile doing a Tittsburgh city directory searcli from 1909 through 1915 it was discovered that the token issuing company was only in operation during 1911 andT9T2.TnThetndex section of the book nearly onelhlrd of all city loa* companies were located within three city blocks on 4th Avenue. This tells you a lot about the consequences of stock market investing in those days. Brass, 32 mm Beaver ¥aHey t^la&s^CD. A locally produced maverick has come to my attention recently. The obverse merely has the initials 13. I/. G. TSn.ln gothic-style incuse punches. There is a stamped 1500 in the obverse lower center. The maker stamp on the reverse shows: FROM/W. A. BUNTING 7FTTTSBURG and gives an enormous clue asto the region where the business would be located. After checking some sources it is a strong likelihood that it is from theTIeaver Valley YdassTIhmpany oLRoch ester,Ta. On JuneTS, T902 the H. C. Fry Glass Co. opened for business across the road from the Beaver Valley Glass Company that had TOO employees and made glass tumblers at the rate of 35,000 per day. In 1906 they increased their furnace capacity, and by 1911 the productionTiad more than douhled.Tn that yearthe two glass companies were merged under the Fry name, and the factory continued through the difficult days of the depression until 1933 wtien it closedrSome glassTactories in Northern West Virginia and Eastern Ohio were known to have used scrip in this same time period. There werg no reports of glass company scrip inTheTittsTurgh area,Tut this could be the first evidence of that possibility. Brass, 28mm PATCO SWAP & MEETING Saturday, May 13, 2006 A PATCO club meeting and swap will be held from 10:30 a.m. to 11:00 a.m. at the Pittsburgh Expomart in Monroeville, PA (near the Monroeville Mall), along Business Route 22. The PATCO meeting is being held in conjunction with the Pennsylvania Association of Numismatists (PAN) Show. Look for signs near the bourse floor to direct you to the PATCO meeting area. To gain access to Route 22 in Monroeville - Take Exit 6 of the Pennsylvania Turnpike (Route 76), or take the Penn-Lincoln Parkway East (Rte 365) from Pittsburgh. Pennsylvania Area Token Collectors Organization Volume 22 - Issue 2 In this issue: “eBay Math” by eBay’s captainrich “Tuff Stuff’ by Larry Dziubek “Summit Hotel’s Lucky Dog Tokens” by Rich Bottles Jr. “Senior Citizen Discounts for Dog License Tags” by Diane Bandy (What Lucky Dog Once Owned This Token?) PATCH DUES: Regular membership (Adult) $5.00: Associate (No journal) $3.00; Junior (Under IB) $3.00; Lifetime $100.00. . ADVERTISING RATES: Full Page is $12; Half Page is $7.00; Quarter Page is $4-50; Eighth Page-is$2,25. -All checks for dues and advertising must be made payable to: PATCO Applications for membership, information on dues, and the payment of dues should be directed to: Secretary-Treasurer Jim Hartman, P.O. Box 1702. Beaver Falls, PA 15010 All paid ads should be “Camera Ready” (designed and laid out by you) for publication in order to avoid additional charges, and should be sent to: Editor Rich Bottles Jr., 1620 Crestmont Circle, Fairmont, WV 26554